Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google • Hacker News Board

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#111

Post by haberman » Fri, Nov 01, 2013, 5:53 AM UTC

pinaceae wrote: post #89

pg wrote: post #61

It's a little early to say for sure, but I predict this will do more to hurt Apple's reputation in the tech community than anything they've done before. And that is not a good community to alienate. I would not be surprised if they look back on this move one day and feel that they ended up net worse off as a result. Apple used to be careful not to alienate hackers. And Microsoft has been gradually digging itself out…

Google threw the gauntlet when it took a billion dollar investment into a mobile OS and gave it away for free. these dumping tactics ruined the market for licensed OS like Windows. did anybody truly believe the rest of the software industry would take it up the ass from google without fighting back? bing, apple maps, patents, etc - all part of the war. how much money does MS already make off android due to lost paten…

Apple threw down the gauntlet when they made it clear that their devices would be a walled garden where they would have absolute control over what apps you can run.

Prior to Android, your choice was between your carrier overlords and the Apple overlord. Not only was that limiting for users, it was a vulnerability for Google business-wise to have their direct competitors as gatekeepers between their services and their users.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#112

Post by interpol_p » Fri, Nov 01, 2013, 5:55 AM UTC

This article is very emotionally loaded. Containing a lot of phrases designed to evoke an emotional response: 'Nuclear', 'DEFCON 1', 'Attack', 'Shocking'.

It actually doesn't mention what Rockstar is suing Google for (i.e., whether it's monetary compensation, banning the sale of products, etc.) The article seems designed to get fans of these companies to react.

I think this will play out as a much more boring, lengthy, and anti-climactic fashion than this article implies.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#113

Post by cromwellian » Fri, Nov 01, 2013, 5:55 AM UTC

pinaceae wrote: post #89

pg wrote: post #61

It's a little early to say for sure, but I predict this will do more to hurt Apple's reputation in the tech community than anything they've done before. And that is not a good community to alienate. I would not be surprised if they look back on this move one day and feel that they ended up net worse off as a result. Apple used to be careful not to alienate hackers. And Microsoft has been gradually digging itself out…

Google threw the gauntlet when it took a billion dollar investment into a mobile OS and gave it away for free. these dumping tactics ruined the market for licensed OS like Windows. did anybody truly believe the rest of the software industry would take it up the ass from google without fighting back? bing, apple maps, patents, etc - all part of the war. how much money does MS already make off android due to lost paten…

How dare they! And how dare Linus Torvalds "dump" Linux on the industry, or Mozilla "dump" Firefox. They should be required by law to charge high fees!

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#114

Post by axman6 » Fri, Nov 01, 2013, 5:55 AM UTC

6thSigma wrote: post #108

axman6 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hang on a sec, if the patents are found valid, and Google etc. are found infringing, then they have s/broken the law/failed make appropriate agreements so that they are then allowed by the owner of the monopoly defined by the claims to use the defined invention, and are now liable to a civil suite from the owner of said patents in order to exercise their exclusive right granted by the ownership of a letters patent/.…

Google didn't bid on these patents because they were infringing - they bid on the patents so they wouldn't get patent trolled.

... if they're not infringing, then they have nothing to worry about. Are you kidding me?

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#115

Post by vacri » Fri, Nov 01, 2013, 5:56 AM UTC

pkaler wrote: post #75

37prime wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am Secretary Not Sure if I could read anything by Rob Enderle. Please find a better, umm more reliable source.

Your logical fallacy is: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem Conveniently, there is a bullet point list of 5 items in the middle of that article. You are free to disagree with any of those points: http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html

Wouldn't referencing a website regarding fallacies in this manner be, in itself, an appeal-to-authority fallacy? :)

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#116

Post by glibgil » Fri, Nov 01, 2013, 5:56 AM UTC

axman6 wrote: post #91

cromwellian wrote: post #4

I thought it was impossible to be more of a douchebag than Intellectual Ventures, but apparently, there's a new winner in town. It was obvious when the Rockstar bid won and you looked at who made up the group, what was going to happen. I used to get really angry and outraged when reading stories like this, but now I'm just resigned. Patent reform isn't going to happen and this kind of predatory and unethical abuse of…

Hang on a sec, if the patents are found valid, and Google etc. are found infringing, then they have s/broken the law/failed make appropriate agreements so that they are then allowed by the owner of the monopoly defined by the claims to use the defined invention, and are now liable to a civil suite from the owner of said patents in order to exercise their exclusive right granted by the ownership of a letters patent/.…

Calm down. Google didn't break "the law". Intellectual property is covered by civil law. One party has to prove that a contract was broken, a patent misused or other IP misused. They also have to prove their damages. They do this in court and if they make their case then the other company has to pay for those damages. It is not a crime. It is not breaking a law. This is not a semantic issue either. It is a civil matter.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#117

Post by cromwellian » Fri, Nov 01, 2013, 5:56 AM UTC

threeseed wrote: post #95

pg wrote: post #61

It's a little early to say for sure, but I predict this will do more to hurt Apple's reputation in the tech community than anything they've done before. And that is not a good community to alienate. I would not be surprised if they look back on this move one day and feel that they ended up net worse off as a result. Apple used to be careful not to alienate hackers. And Microsoft has been gradually digging itself out…

Google's continued abuse of the FRAND process has done nothing to hurt their image in the eyes of most. And likewise this suit won't affect Apple or Microsoft's reputation one iota.

That's because most hackers perceive Google's FRAND suits as a justified defensive counter-attack brought on by Microsoft and Apple's patent abuse, so they are given slack.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#118

Post by olefoo » Fri, Nov 01, 2013, 5:56 AM UTC

axman6 wrote: post #91

cromwellian wrote: post #4

I thought it was impossible to be more of a douchebag than Intellectual Ventures, but apparently, there's a new winner in town. It was obvious when the Rockstar bid won and you looked at who made up the group, what was going to happen. I used to get really angry and outraged when reading stories like this, but now I'm just resigned. Patent reform isn't going to happen and this kind of predatory and unethical abuse of…

Hang on a sec, if the patents are found valid, and Google etc. are found infringing, then they have s/broken the law/failed make appropriate agreements so that they are then allowed by the owner of the monopoly defined by the claims to use the defined invention, and are now liable to a civil suite from the owner of said patents in order to exercise their exclusive right granted by the ownership of a letters patent/.…

You don't understand how patents work. Patents allow you to prevent someone else from selling a product that is covered by your patent. But to do so; you have to get a court order and show that the product in question is covered by the patent in question. It's not a question of whether the defendant is doing something illegal; it's a question of whether the rights the plaintiff asserts are valid. Of course, once the plaintiff has won an order; defying it is ... ill-considered.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#119

Post by smsm42 » Fri, Nov 01, 2013, 5:57 AM UTC

pinaceae wrote: post #89

pg wrote: post #61

It's a little early to say for sure, but I predict this will do more to hurt Apple's reputation in the tech community than anything they've done before. And that is not a good community to alienate. I would not be surprised if they look back on this move one day and feel that they ended up net worse off as a result. Apple used to be careful not to alienate hackers. And Microsoft has been gradually digging itself out…

Google threw the gauntlet when it took a billion dollar investment into a mobile OS and gave it away for free. these dumping tactics ruined the market for licensed OS like Windows. did anybody truly believe the rest of the software industry would take it up the ass from google without fighting back? bing, apple maps, patents, etc - all part of the war. how much money does MS already make off android due to lost paten…

They are really evil people. Probably as evil as those who created OSes, languages, browsers, protocols, libraries, compilers, IDEs - and gave them away for free. If not for the "rest of the software industry", everything would be in ruins now due to evil commies that dare to give away software.

Re: Patent war goes nuclear: Microsoft, Apple-owned “Rockstar” sues Google

#120

Post by mythz » Fri, Nov 01, 2013, 5:57 AM UTC

pinaceae wrote: post #89

pg wrote: post #61

It's a little early to say for sure, but I predict this will do more to hurt Apple's reputation in the tech community than anything they've done before. And that is not a good community to alienate. I would not be surprised if they look back on this move one day and feel that they ended up net worse off as a result. Apple used to be careful not to alienate hackers. And Microsoft has been gradually digging itself out…

Google threw the gauntlet when it took a billion dollar investment into a mobile OS and gave it away for free. these dumping tactics ruined the market for licensed OS like Windows. did anybody truly believe the rest of the software industry would take it up the ass from google without fighting back? bing, apple maps, patents, etc - all part of the war. how much money does MS already make off android due to lost paten…

Exactly which part of investing billions of dollars acquiring and developing a technology and giving it away for free, lowering the price of consumer devices, needs to be prevented?

If they've discovered a business model that enables them to invest, develop and freely distribute their own tech to end-users benefits, they should encouraged, not a victim of established cartels using their cash war-chest to buy B.S. patents that they can use as anti-competitive weapons to legally attack their competitors instead of competing against them technically in the market-place.