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It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

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Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#11

Post by ilyanep »

sandstrom wrote: post #3

One thing I find interesting is that it's somehow okay as long as it's directed at 'the foreigners'. Who are these foreigners? Is it Sergey Brin or Larry Page, before they moved to the US? Elon Musk? Peter Thiel? Many Americans need not look further than their grandparents to see a 'foreigner' (and, excluding a few natives, the entire nation has been built by foreigners). Would it not makes sense to show the same cou…

Not to speak toward the validity of your comment, more to nitpick, but Larry Page was born in Michigan, so there was no "moving to the US" :)

Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#13

Post by ilyanep »

npsimons wrote: post #10
JimboOmega wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not okay ; it's still morally questionable at best . But it is infinitely more legal. The government has all sorts of restrictions on what it can do (e.g., the 4th amendment), that apply to citizens, but not foreign nationals. If they are not even bothering to respect the distinction, it's the case that they violate both the spirit and the letter of the law without a care; it's a much more dangerous position of…

The government has all sorts of restrictions on what it can do (e.g., the 4th amendment), that apply to citizens, but not foreign nationals. Are you sure about that? IANAL, and I've not kept up with more recent laws, but the forth doesn't say anything about "citizens", it says "people".

It says "the people"

Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#14

Post by coffeemug »

npsimons wrote: post #10
JimboOmega wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not okay ; it's still morally questionable at best . But it is infinitely more legal. The government has all sorts of restrictions on what it can do (e.g., the 4th amendment), that apply to citizens, but not foreign nationals. If they are not even bothering to respect the distinction, it's the case that they violate both the spirit and the letter of the law without a care; it's a much more dangerous position of…

The government has all sorts of restrictions on what it can do (e.g., the 4th amendment), that apply to citizens, but not foreign nationals. Are you sure about that? IANAL, and I've not kept up with more recent laws, but the forth doesn't say anything about "citizens", it says "people".

The distinction comes from the SCOTUS interpretation of the constitution, not the constitution itself. They've been quite consistent in limiting the constitutional rights to American citizens/soil/etc.

Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#17

Post by denzil_correa »

>American tech companies, in other words, are now the Huaweis of everywhere else.

This can only stop IF the companies proactively make an attempt to get out of bed from the organizations which hold a gun over their head. Currently, the companies want to "spy" (for marketing, advertisements etc.) on their customers as much as governments.

Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#18

Post by rhizome »

denzil_correa wrote: post #17

>American tech companies, in other words, are now the Huaweis of everywhere else. This can only stop IF the companies proactively make an attempt to get out of bed from the organizations which hold a gun over their head. Currently, the companies want to "spy" (for marketing, advertisements etc.) on their customers as much as governments.

Given the existence and current legality of NSLs and other tools, they likely cannot get out of bed without a legal repudiation of the third-party doctrine. Until then, they can be compelled to stay in bed whether they want to or not.

Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#19

Post by sharkweek »

I have an honest and serious question -- who are the developers and designers who put these systems into place for the NSA? Are they aware of what they're doing or is it all classified and contracted out? Are they proud of their work? Is it just a paycheck? Surely someone with such a high aptitude could easily get a job elsewhere -- I guess I'm just unable to make the connection on who willingly builds this kind of stuff.

I'm not trying to be intentionally obtuse, I just legitimately am curious

Re: It’s time for Silicon Valley to ask: Is it worth it?

#20

Post by devx »

JimboOmega wrote: post #4

"Now, Silicon Valley needs to join them." - because we otherwise approve of the snooping, but for this latest outrage? I'm honestly wondering - what's the other side of this? Who's defending and explaining this? I have not seen an article that "takes the other side" in some time, and that might be a result of the echo chamber that is the bay area... Or it might be the result of an "intelligence community" that really…

With people like the POTUS, the Chief of the Intelligence Committee, and half of Congress backing them, not to mention most of the military industrial complex, who needs "supporters"?
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