Earlier quoted context omitted.
Disagree entirely. Silicon Valley is just as superficial as the rest of them, except the points your'e being judged from are a somewhat different set from mainstream society. In the Valley tech scene (and all tech scenes everywhere) the respect we afford people is heavily influenced by a lot of cultural markers. Access to newfangled gadgetry, neighborhoods we live in, even freaking toe shoes . Don't have the spare ti…
what is it about toe shoes? i always wear them - what kind of signal am i sending?
The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People
151–160 of 214 posts
Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People
#152I read the whole article and do not agree. Here in Silicon Valley the importance of appearances has become marginal. Yes, you have to be clean, presentable, but that's it. After that you need the skills, talent, knowledge and aptitude to perform your job. And you need that everyday, to keep your job, in this hyper-competitive environment. I was a poor starving immigrant student at one point. I did fine without even m…
Silicon Valley is still somewhat an exception to the rule about appearances. In what other area do the rich people dress exactly like the poorest? Remember the hubbub when Zuckerberg wore a hoodie to a meeting regarding the Facebook IPO. That might be laughed off in Silicon Valley but I know many people in other parts of the country that would view it as insulting for someone to show up to a business meeting wearing…
Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People
#153>We could, as my grandfather would say, talk like white folks. We loaned that privilege out to folks a lot. I think that speaking well, or being articulate, is not a privilege but an ability. It is not an ability that everyone has, but it is an ability that almost anyone can acquire with practice. This is true both in verbal and digital communication. If you are not articulate, you will be at a disadvantage throughou…
Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People
#154Earlier quoted context omitted.
Parents and siblings. And that actually brings up an entirely other privilege I had at that time. When I first got my job at the movie theater, I was asked by nearly every floor employee how many kids I had. I was one of only a handful who were yet to have children, despite all of us being ~18-26. I can't guess how restricted I would have been in my mobility if I had children to think of at that time.
Oh god, take this 'privilege' stuff back to Tumblr. Not having kids isn't privilege, it's choice. Edit because I don't want this comment to come off too aggressively: you sullied a perfectly nice set of comments and truly interesting anecdote about your life by discounting it as privilege. Since when are wise choices privilege?
> by discounting it as privilege
He didn't. Calling it privilege didn't discount it to me, and I doubt it discounts it to those who have a basic understanding of privilege. I found it respectful that he was able to recognize it, call it out, and acknowledge its influence on his perspective.
The only person discounting his contribution is you.
Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People
#155(I am not disputing the claim of the author's story and that experience, I am merely pointing out that his example is not the case most of the time.)
It is true that a very small minority of people dress and talk nicely because they realize that they will be treated better by the middle and upper class. Now in this group, some spend lavish amounts of money (like in the article), and some shop at thrift stores and/or buy knock off designer purses, belts, ETC. This fact alone blurs the argument that the author is presenting. It is very possible (and proven so) to live in poverty in America and dress well by choosing alternative resources.
The other (and more devastating) counter argument that applies to other poor people is merely by observation of what the status symbols that many in these groups purchase.
Let me use the example that was laid out in the article. The typical poor black women/man in a white world scenario. Well then why do the majority of poor black men and women who make expensive status symbol purchases look ghetto and drive "ghetto" cars? I don't mean beat up and worn out clothes and cars, I mean the style of clothing/jewelry and pimped out cars. These same people aren't talking "nicely" either. Their heavy use of Ebonics/Redneck/Slang and constant expletives while wearing their gold chains, starter athletic jerseys and Le-Brons (expensive basketball shoes) ETC. Tell a different story. They are seeking status among their piers, not the middle/upper class that they envy. They are not doing it to help them work their way up economically. It is in fact keeping them down. How are they better off overall now? They could have saved that money and invested it on going to school or moving to an area of better geographic opportunity. Now instead they just look like more expensively dressed thugs.
My personal belief is that most poor people live for today. They don't have long term goals and plans. They were never taught good habits like saving up money and conveying to the non-minority class that they don't have a ghetto mentality or live in the rap/hip hop culture (during job interviews ETC).
They have no hope, because they have no vision or dreams. All that they typically observe is their small world and the twisted fantasy of television/movies/commercials. Sure, it feels great to go into a department store and feel wealthy for a day, wear expensive things and feel better about yourself, but most poor people buying designer status symbols - this is what it is really all about. Living a fantasy with no real benefit to their actual social, economic, or productive member of society status.
Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People
#156I cannot speak to the gendered or racial points (white male, here), but during my time in NYC I experienced first hand the escalation of opportunity that tracked with my escalation of signaling clothing and accessories. I was lucky enough to be poached from my job as a movie theater cleaner/attendant by the manager of a 5th Avenue Kenneth Cole. At the time I was struggling and would eventually end up temporarily home…
There is some antipathy among a few HN readers about people who wear suits, so I guess there's some important cultural differences.
> I paid my share of the rent late,
A minor point. In the UK it is very important to try to pay rent above any other debt (apart from anything from courts).
Non payment of rent is one of the easiest ways for a landlord to evict a tenant.
Non payment of utility bills is, if you must not pay something, better.
Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
And for at least 1.7 million people last year, they were? http://www.cnbc.com/id/101099732
And of course if you look at the economic performance of the US under R administrations, vs D administrations, the Rs win by a hundred miles. /s
Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
Parents and siblings. And that actually brings up an entirely other privilege I had at that time. When I first got my job at the movie theater, I was asked by nearly every floor employee how many kids I had. I was one of only a handful who were yet to have children, despite all of us being ~18-26. I can't guess how restricted I would have been in my mobility if I had children to think of at that time.
Oh god, take this 'privilege' stuff back to Tumblr. Not having kids isn't privilege, it's choice. Edit because I don't want this comment to come off too aggressively: you sullied a perfectly nice set of comments and truly interesting anecdote about your life by discounting it as privilege. Since when are wise choices privilege?
I didn't make any wise choices. That one guy, my manager at the Kenneth Cole, made those choices for me. I wanted to get my family gifts instead of getting interview clothes for myself, I would never have even thought to apply to Kenneth Cole, instead I was poached away from a job that paid me so little that I was gathering leftover food from the theater floor for meals. And within a year or so of the context of this story, I also found myself worrying that I may have gotten someone pregnant.
What I did have, that I always had, was an outgoing personality and a strong work ethic. The rest of it was a series of chance events and one forceful personality on the part of that manager. I think that maybe the larger connotation of the word "privelege" may be what has rubbed you the wrong way. How about this:
"And that brings up another stroke of luck"
I wasn't out there making wise choices, I was getting lucky, and I when I can ask myself what has allowed me to be lucky, I can learn about myself and the larger context of my life. When I can learn about myself and the larger context of my life, I can better understand and empathize with others.
Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People
#159I cannot speak to the gendered or racial points (white male, here), but during my time in NYC I experienced first hand the escalation of opportunity that tracked with my escalation of signaling clothing and accessories. I was lucky enough to be poached from my job as a movie theater cleaner/attendant by the manager of a 5th Avenue Kenneth Cole. At the time I was struggling and would eventually end up temporarily home…
I like wearing suits. I like the tailoring. I like wearing shirts and ties. I'm glad I get the opportunity to do so. I strongly agree that if you like wearing the clobber you feel good doing so, and that helps with confidence, especially in interview situations. There is some antipathy among a few HN readers about people who wear suits, so I guess there's some important cultural differences. > I paid my share of the…
Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People
#160An equally good question is why to poor people vote republican? Because they want to belong. And through financial osmosis people who vote republican become rich, right? That is the thinking anyway.
Wait, where did you read that poor people vote republican? I would've guessed otherwise.