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Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

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Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#91

Post by crucialfelix »

siddhant wrote: post #67
okeumeni wrote: post #32

This is controversial but it is my personal experience: As a non-white, living in Germany is hard; the level of bigotry and racism in my opinion makes the nuisance of the US visa system negligible. Most tech immigrants are non-whites so I think a debate over immigration should take into account the quality of life for the techies and their family. Sure the US still have a lot to do to improve its visa system, but the…

Where in Germany are you? I think this is the first time I've heard anyone say that there is racism in Germany.

seriously ? even in Berlin Africans and Asians get taunted on the street, beat up and occasionally killed. An Asian guy was killed last year just off of Alex. There were a series of u-bahn attacks on Africans last year.

Very multi-kulti here but you still have to be watchful.

If you are traveling in eastern Germany while black you will get quite strong harassment and in many towns you would be unwise to travel at night by yourself.

source: black people told me so

But statistically speaking its still safer than many US cities. And as a Nigerian born, Moscow raised guy told me, Moscow is way more racist.

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#92

Post by levosmetalo »

mahyarm wrote: post #85

One negative is if I want to immigrate and get citizenship, I would have to give up my original citizenship. It's too bad that the EU's start up hub is in a country without dual citizenship.

If your own country allows dual citizenship, you are not legally prohibited to get your original citizenship again after taking German. Germany doesn't explicitly prohibit their citizens to take another country citizenship, it just doesn't want to grant its own if you don't renounce all your old citizenships. IANAL, but know many people who did just that.

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#93

Post by Aloisius »

jkarni wrote: post #78
Aloisius wrote: post #54

US Visa laws are certainly hard, but there is a positive side (for the US at least): only those that are highly motivated to move here make it through the process. This really does bias the types of immigrants we get. As much as people might complain about immigrants coming in and then going on welfare, it just doesn't happen with any frequency. Instead, we get immigrants who come here and start companies at twice th…

Or: weeding out everyone who believes forms and bureaucracy shouldn't constitute a significant fraction of one's mental landscape, or who is offended by the extent to which the difficulty of the process makes it seem like the government doesn't want you here in the first place, or whose opportunities in other countries are close enough in attractiveness for the annoyance to tip the scale (presumably precisely the peo…

Though "weeding out" or "filtering" to any real extent clearly isn't all that much of a priority when a large part of the system is a lottery.

The green card lottery (Diversity Immigrant Visa) makes up less than 5% of the total green cards issued in the US. I'd hardly call that a large part of the system.

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#94

Post by rafifyalda »

nerfhammer wrote: post #72

What about language barriers? Many German companies officially use English as their business language on paper at least, but how true would this be for startups?

English will get you by in Berlin. If the startup has international employees, then English will be spoken heavily inside the startup (usually).

Outside of your startup, you'll want to at least learn enough German to be able to ask for things in a shop, order at restaurants. Though even if you were to speak in English, you'll find most people will be able to respond in English and help you out, but that depends on how far you travel. Once you start getting out beyond the ring (metro system), you'll find the level of English degrade.

One tip when you start out here: Genuinely apologise to someone that you do not speak German in German, ask if they speak English in German, and they will almost always be happy to speak in English. Start blurting out loudly in an American-English accent and you may not receive the same level of hospitality.

Source: Live and worked for a few startups here in Berlin, speaking from anecdotal evidence based on experiences from both German and expat friends

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#95

Post by PavlovsCat »

mahyarm wrote: post #57
thetrb wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Berlin is a relatively cheap place to live. So depending on where you live now you might actually need much less money when living in Berlin.

Most of the US (not NYC, DC, SF) is far cheaper than Europe in general. Even Seattle is cheaper on average.

> Even Seattle is cheaper on average.

Unless you mean "cheaper than Europe in general", I guess these sites could use your input:

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?coun...

http://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/comparison/seattle/...

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#96

Post by tptacek »

wheels wrote: post #71
tptacek wrote: post #29

German labor law has some features that might interact in interesting ways with startups. Germany lacks employment-at-will; it appears that disputed terminations can easily become lawsuits there (but German law also seems to have orderly mechanisms for resolving these disputes, which boil down to mandatory severance). German law has what appears to be a strict policy on hours worked per week and per day, and on worki…

On the at-will thing, in addition to it being easier if the company has demonstrable financial problems as someone else mentioned, one thing that makes it less of an issue is that usually when you start at a company in Germany you're given a fixed-term contract. It's only after your third contract (i.e. usually after two years) that you're required to get a permanent contract. In most cases if there's a real clash it…

I kind of wrote that comment with the expectation that you'd chime in and set me straight. Thanks! :)

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#97

Post by simonhn »

bergie wrote: post #50
CalRobert wrote: post #37

I clawed and scratched my way into Europe (Ireland) because I was sick and tired of my taxes supporting drone warfare and I didn't want to have to pay $2500 per month for an apartment so I could ride a bike to work. It's awesome. By all accounts Germany is even nicer, with a stronger economy, better cycling infrastructure, and cheaper rents. Honestly I'm not sure why you'd move to the US if Germany is an option.

Also, Berlin is international enough that you'll get by quite nicely without speaking German.

You need to be willing and able to learn German in addition to simply working in Berlin. Depending on your ability to pick up new languages, this can be quite a lot of extra work in the evening and/or weekends (it was for me).

Not everyone can, or is willing to (e.g. in banks) speak English, or you may sometimes find yourself on the wrong railway platform, or having a long wait in the wrong queue when you cannot understand German.

The big German cities I know well: Berlin, Hamburg and Munich are all very nice places to live and work.

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#98

Post by Aloisius »

claudius wrote: post #80
Aloisius wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I would change EU(ropean) way of life for 50+ work weeks, one week of vacation and no payed sick or parental leave, super expensive education and no universal health care. No paid sick leave? One week of vacation? Super expensive education (for kindergarten???)? Where in the US are you talking about? While we don't tend to have laws mandating sick leave, nearly every company that you'd immigrate for give…

> Out of state tuition is typically expensive if you want to go to a top university, but the average community college is downright cheap. Studying at Germany’s best public universities (e.g. LMU Munich, FU Berlin etc.) will set you back about 250 € per term (6 months), which includes a public transport ticket (or about 50€ if said public transport ticket is not mandatory for all students). How ‘cheap’ exactly is a c…

California Community College tuition is about $1,100 per year and another $1,700 in books and supplies. That excludes room and board, personal expenses, transportation and the like. That's not quite as low as Germany, but very doable.

California State University system by comparison costs $6,600 in tuition for the year while the University of California system is around $13,000. Of course both of those are probably located nowhere near your home, so you'll end up spending a far greater amount on room and board if you need it.

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#99

Post by sanskritabelt »

justinhj wrote: post #89
tptacek wrote: post #29

German labor law has some features that might interact in interesting ways with startups. Germany lacks employment-at-will; it appears that disputed terminations can easily become lawsuits there (but German law also seems to have orderly mechanisms for resolving these disputes, which boil down to mandatory severance). German law has what appears to be a strict policy on hours worked per week and per day, and on worki…

At-will employment seemed like a terrible idea when I worked in the US, at least from the employees point of view. It's essentially enforced opt out of many protections you'd receive in other countries.

The only benefit to at-will employment for an employee is you're not tied into things like 'you must work here for 2 years / give 6 months notice', over/under of 15 years for those protections to start being weakened.

Re: Startups Like Berlin Because Visa Rules Are Nothing Like the U.S.

#100

Post by nachteilig »

I remain surprised that the US hasn't adopted more of this sort of attitude toward immigration. Historically it's a country that's always been about taking the best talent from elsewhere, so I remain baffled that it's so difficult in modern days. Especially with 'silicon valley' being located in America.
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