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The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People

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Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People

#111

Post by Nate75Sanders »

IanDrake wrote: post #102
lmg643 wrote: post #53

I will agree the value of a put-together appearance is valid, in many contexts. and i wouldn't take from that at all. However ... it's ridiculous to use this to defend a $2,500 handbag purchase. the purchase was inadvisable at best. marshall's, target, JCP etc have a massive business strategy around making sophisticated looks available on a low budget. so there are plenty of ways to accomplish the objective of self r…

I agree. Two different things being discussed as one. 1) Everyone should have at least one outfit that is super classy. A cheap solution is a Salvation Army or Goodwill store in a nice part of town. 2) People who live on the dole and buy things they clearly don't need or deserve. Rocking an iPhone 5 while using your food stamp debit card at the grocery store to buy junk food is the typical "Stupid" poor person move m…

Man, the iPhone 5 really is not a very good example here.

If you wear your super classy outfit to an interview AND you have the iPhone 5 instead of a prepaid Android phone (or worse -- a prepaid non-smartphone), it's going to show that you "belong" and that you're not poor.

Some people really do pay attention to what kind of phone you have, particularly for these gateway-straddling jobs that the author talks about in the article.

Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People

#112

Post by swamp40 »

Qom wrote: post #89
tghw wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, are you saying Zuck should be required to dress his socioeconomic class?

No. I just think it's posturing on his part. He's pretending to be something he's not, so that people see the friendly brogrammer instead of the ambitious "They trust me — dumb fucks" CEO who disregards privacy.

Don't you think that maybe it's the other 99.9% of people that are "posturing"?

Some people just rebel against the "norm" of using clothing to represent their socioeconomic status - money or no money.

Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People

#113

Post by [deleted] »

slg wrote: post #32
kirpekar wrote: post #10

I read the whole article and do not agree. Here in Silicon Valley the importance of appearances has become marginal. Yes, you have to be clean, presentable, but that's it. After that you need the skills, talent, knowledge and aptitude to perform your job. And you need that everyday, to keep your job, in this hyper-competitive environment. I was a poor starving immigrant student at one point. I did fine without even m…

Silicon Valley is still somewhat an exception to the rule about appearances. In what other area do the rich people dress exactly like the poorest? Remember the hubbub when Zuckerberg wore a hoodie to a meeting regarding the Facebook IPO. That might be laughed off in Silicon Valley but I know many people in other parts of the country that would view it as insulting for someone to show up to a business meeting wearing…

[deleted]

Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People

#114

Post by balabaster »

tghw wrote: post #71
Qom wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's insulting here is that Zuck is trying to keep the "hoodie-guy" image despite his unimaginable wealth. You can't have the cake and eat it.

I'm sorry, are you saying Zuck should be required to dress his socioeconomic class?

I don't think he's trying to be something he's not at all. I think he's trying to be the person he wants to be, and fuck everyone else's opinions on what that should or shouldn't be. At the end of the day, he's the richest guy in America, possibly the world(?), and largely he did that through his own efforts. So who is anyone to tell him what he can and can't do? If he wants to wear a hoodie, he will, if he doesn't, he won't. No amount of gossip and rumour about whose nose he bent out of shape by doing so, or people trying to tell him what he should and shouldn't waear, is going to change that. People like Zuckerberg largely don't give a shit about gossip polls or rumours; and much as I may like or dislike what has been reported on his opinion or policies at Facebook, I can relate to his disdain for being told what to do... and I think truth be told, if everyone in the I.T. industry searched their soul for the truth, they can on some level relate to that. Most people that think for a living tend to have some level of a problem with authority... certainly given Silicon Valley's disdain for suits, I interpret this is more about defiance of societal social rules than trying to be something he's not.

Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People

#115

Post by WalterSear »

vinhboy wrote: post #20

While I agree with the sentiment, I don't think her arguments are very strong. I personally think people make bad decisions to buy things or do things not on the premise of it being an "investment", but because most of us are very weak. We do the things we do because we are victims to advertising and peer pressure. You think they spend billions on advertising for nothing? If you read this and you are thinking, "No I…

I have a friend who defines pulling oneself by the bootstraps: ran away from home in impoverished Texas, lived in homeless sheleters and on the streets until she could be and borrow her way into a lower middle class existence.

She doesn't celebrate Xmas, or any of the social holidays, because they remind her of the home and family she can't interact with any more; every time she has tried visiting home, her relatives and friends try to soak her for all she's worth. They don't want to present to the world - they are just crave the momentary thrill of spending money on frivolous stuff, that they rarely see otherwise, and consequently value out of all proportion.

Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People

#116

Post by mrxd »

MattGrommes wrote: post #49

One of the hard parts for me to understand about articles like this is the addition of race into a social calculation that may not have included race. If I see somebody I'm hiring has a clean car (one of the examples in the article), I'm not thinking "Great, a black person acting white by having a clean car, I'm hiring her", I'm thinking "Great, a tidy person with a clean car". I see this a lot. Obviously there are p…

It can still be about race even if you aren't thinking about race when you make that kind of judgment. If you are black and poor, you may not realize that having a clean car is something you will be judged on, and the lack of knowledge might be due to racism. You have to be socialized into middle class culture in order to understand the somewhat arbitrary class signifiers that white people with more power than you care about. Due to poverty, segregation and poor education, you might not get socialized. And if you've spent time around genuine bigots, you might not want to ingratiate yourself to a white culture that you believe hates you just to get a job.

Some of these standards are reasonable on their own. They can become unfair and racist, not because individuals are necessarily bigoted, but due social policies that disadvantage minorities and the poor.

Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People

#117

Post by hnal943 »

WalterSear wrote: post #54
donretag wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people vote republican not because of their fiscal policies, but because of the social ones like abortion.

Abortion, Homosexual Marriage, these are manufactured controversy. They were created so that that poor masses can be convinced to vote for them.

How are they "manufactured controversy?" Do you think that there is a secret universal agreement on these issues? Seems unlikely.

Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People

#118

Post by balabaster »

IanCal wrote: post #108
balabaster wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In math, most of the time, mean and average are used to mean the same thing. I will concede that yes, I did mean the mean average, or more properly, if you wish to be pedantic - the arithmetic mean average, instead of just "average".

I don't think I've ever seen a serious maths problem not be specific about the type of average they are referring to. In general speech, all three common types are meant (mode being the usual meaning of "the average/typical person...") and the context usually explains which someone means. > I will concede that yes, I did mean the mean average Which is fine, but you were complaining that someone else was wrong even th…

I have never in my time in 8 years of math classes ever heard the term "average" referred to as the median or mode. When median or mode has been meant, it has always been explicitly stated as such. The more vague "average" being left to implicitly reference the arithmetic mean average of "sum total divided by count of values"

Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People

#119

Post by [deleted] »

Qom wrote: post #81
Swizec wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have the arithmetic mean in mind, but their intuition of "average" is actually the median, or even more commonly the modus. When somebody says "Average people are X", they usually mean "Most people I've encountered are X", which is the modus. Hell, I just did that in this exact sentence!

I like how we've totally ignored the guy's arguments due to some technicality in his post. That's Hacker News for you!

[deleted]

Re: The Logic of “Stupid” Poor People

#120

Post by Djehngo »

medium wrote: post #83

This entire article could really be shortened to one simple sentence: "Poor people buy expensive things because it makes them FEEL rich for a moment."

Only it couldn't because that's not even close to what the article was saying.

It was pointing out that looking the part gives opportunities which might otherwise be closed. Therefore spending your meagre savings buying fancy clothes can be seen as an investment.

I'm not addressing the validity of the article's point vs yours, but the summary was not correct.

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