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NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

washingtonpost.com

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Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#161

Post by kamjam »

eck wrote: post #97
kamjam wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the flip side of that, maybe you do want ex-NSA staff with the inside knowledge so you can protect yourself against their tactics. Isn't that the same reasoning for hiring ex-black hat hackers?

If someone is willing to divulge inside knowledge of his last employer you have to assume that in the future he will be willing to divulge your inside knowledge.

Agree. But it happens all the time. Why else do you think they have those long periods of gardening leave when you leave one employer for another, or those clauses in contracts saying you will not work for a competitor in the same field for X months when you leave? (Although, I seem to recall the last one being unlawful since they are essentially stopping you earning a living).

Sometimes employers are willing to take that risk.

Do you think Ed Snowden is now more or less employable now?

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#162

Post by looney »

atonse wrote: post #34
gohrt wrote: post #7

I hope that this finally convinces everyone that it doesn't matter whether Google is "Evil" or Yahoo is more evil or whatever. What matters is that large cloud systems are fundamentally incapable of protecting data. Even the most goodhearted and the most talented teams can't reliably defend against a massively funded adversary. Secrets are for keeping, not sharing.

Well, I don't think it's that easy. If the NSA wanted your data, they could get into your network probably easier than they could get into Google's networks. Companies like Google have way smarter people (and working full time) securing data than most businesses. For us to secure our networks as much as someone like Google would, we'd have to have a team of the best hackers around. And by definition, the best hackers…

You'd think that but that's not actually true. Google's infrastructure is way too big to be completely secure. There are several ways to penetrate Google's network.

I know some of the people in the security team and they are pretty good, but arrogance will be their undoing.

Google has an internal team called the Orange Team that performs security audits and, so far, they have always been successful in penetrating Google's network. If they can, what makes you think the NSA hasn't done that already?

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#163

Post by SkyMarshal »

mapgrep wrote: post #104
ori_b wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google was letting information flow between its data center completely unencrypted until last month. http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/google-enc... . Last month! Over their own private WAN. The analogy would be sending things in the clear over your LAN. [Citation: http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/~rcs/research/google-onrc-slide... ]

The likelihood miles and miles of cabling, much of it presumably leased, will be compromised is nowhere near comparable to the likelihood a normal, single-location office/home ethernet LAN will be compromised. (And if you think both are easily compromised, that only adds to my original point.)

Fwiw Micheal Crighton wrote about this ("piggyback slurp") in Congo:

http://goo.gl/KSf78p

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#164

Post by Moral_ »

ori_b wrote: post #92
mapgrep wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google was letting information flow between its data centers completely unencrypted until last month . http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/google-enc... Last month! Think about that for a second. Most people on HN wouldn't send a single file to their own backup provider in the clear. Google was sending gushing torrents of data, presumably including email, IMs, etc, over long distances that way. That's v…

> Google was letting information flow between its data center completely unencrypted until last month. http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/google-enc... . Last month! Over their own private WAN. The analogy would be sending things in the clear over your LAN. [Citation: http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/~rcs/research/google-onrc-slide... ]

http://www.cs.uccs.edu/~xzhou/teaching/CS522/Projects/SIGCOM...

There's the actual paper google wrote. It's very good. OpenFlow is a terrific piece of technology.

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#165

Post by simplemath »

talon88 wrote: post #145
adventured wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's far beyond special investigator time. Obama should be impeached. Both Obama and Bush should be tried for criminal conduct. Both should be put in prison for decades for treason. Of course on top of that are the war crimes and general crimes against humanity both committed (torture, war, murder of thousands of civilians, and so on).

Can you lay out the charges, special prosecutor?

Whats the charge for a state being the enemy of its own citizens?

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#166

Post by kamjam »

adventured wrote: post #60
tptacek wrote: post #2

It's hard not to come to the conclusion that these activities were essentially criminal. I don't see how the administration can fail to disavow them, investigate them fully, and hold their instigators accountable. It feels like Special Prosecutor time. That aside, let me re-make a point I keep making: Google had no knowledge of NSA's physical compromise of their data centers. But still, they pushed harder than anyone…

It's far beyond special investigator time. Obama should be impeached. Both Obama and Bush should be tried for criminal conduct. Both should be put in prison for decades for treason. Of course on top of that are the war crimes and general crimes against humanity both committed (torture, war, murder of thousands of civilians, and so on).

It wasn't too long ago that Obama himself said Ed Snowden was not a patriot. Said it then, will say it again. The hypocrisy just reeks.

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#167

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

hackula1 wrote: post #50
mkr-hn wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google might have an easier time recruiting edge producing developers than the NSA after the leaks.

I imagine anyone with a line on their resume that says "NSA - Software Developer - 2009:Present" is going to have a hard time finding a new job at many companies (although certainly not all).

When the NSA sends people out to infiltrate companies, they won't write "NSA" on their resume. For the rest of former NSA employees, a lot of them will have resumes that say: Palantir, Booz Allen Hamilton, etc.

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#168

Post by wissler »

The writing has been on the wall about the true nature of "the cloud" for at least 15 years. I tried to tell people, they preferred to put their faith and trust in the major magazines, which were all propagandizing about it constantly. Most people (including the developers who write this software) allow themselves to be herded, and if you try to tell them what's really going on they write you off as a crackpot.

What most people don't realize is that all the value offered by "the cloud" can be created with much higher quality on a different architecture, one that gives all the benefits of the cloud, but without sacrificing privacy.

Re: NSA infiltrates links to Yahoo, Google data centers worldwide

#169

Post by cromwellian »

mef wrote: post #150
cromwellian wrote: post #86

Why didn't they release these documents a long time ago when everyone was racing to judgement that Google, Yahoo, et al were secretly in cahoots with the NSA helping to build drag-net surveillance extranet stuff for them? These are very important revelations! I mean, when Greenwald/Snowden/Guardian released the original PRISM accusations, these slides would have provided a much much more important set of evidence, in…

By releasing the documents in this order, they give government officials just enough rope to hang themselves by prompting them to defend themselves by making statements about what they do and do not do, and then releasing new documents directly contradicting those statements. In a weird way, it actually motivates them to tell the "whole truth" because they don't know what documents will be released later so they don'…

Yea, but as collateral damage, the rope hung the tech companies and damaged their brands by who knows how much.
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