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Mac OS 10.9 – Infinity times your spam

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Re: Mac OS 10.9 – Infinity times your spam

#51

Post by yapcguy »

Segmentation wrote: post #45
cmyr wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you can still blame them. They're a corporation with a 470B market cap, designing machines for which email is a primary use-case. They employ thousands and thousand of engineers. They should be able to build a mail client. Many much smaller organizations manage alright.

Agreed. How is Apple not to blame? If this article was about Gmail instead of Mail.app, every comment would definitely be blaming Google.

Yep.

What real innovation has there been on Mac OS X since Bertrand Serlet left?

Where are all the adult engineers?

I've met a few people now who are contracted by Apple to work on their customer facing Apps. They commute to Cupertino from the Bay Area every day. Nice people but they're second tier. They never critique Apple, think Apple is the best at everything, and shrug their shoulders at any technology developed outside of Apple. There's always an excuse for things that don't work, from broken iCloud APIs to Apple Maps.

They're competent engineers, they'll do what they are told, but they're not the mavericks who will break new ground. Just my opinion, but perhaps this is something other people have experienced.

EDIT: To poster below, with regards to the Bay Area which covers a large geographic region, I'm talking about the San Francisco peninsula area. Amongst people I know, Cupertino (which is in Santa Clara) is generally referred to as being in South Bay rather than the Bay Area.

Re: Mac OS 10.9 – Infinity times your spam

#52

Post by tomphoolery »

kyro wrote: post #30

I would very much appreciate an iOS 7 stripping of Mail.app. I've developed this aversion to opening up the app, and if I do by accident, it's a panicked scramble to quit. It's bloated and clunky. I would consistently get connection errors, it would randomly decide to re-sync all of my mail attachments, and more. I've been on Sparrow for a year or so now and have had zero problems. It's funny, across all of my Apple…

In Settings > Mail, Contacts & Calendars, there's a section called ACCOUNTS. Click on all of them and turn "Mail" off. This way you'll still get everything else in Calendars, Contacts, et. al., but when Mail.app opens it will be empty.

Re: Mac OS 10.9 – Infinity times your spam

#53

Post by nknighthb »

yapcguy wrote: post #51
Segmentation wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. How is Apple not to blame? If this article was about Gmail instead of Mail.app, every comment would definitely be blaming Google.

Yep. What real innovation has there been on Mac OS X since Bertrand Serlet left? Where are all the adult engineers? I've met a few people now who are contracted by Apple to work on their customer facing Apps. They commute to Cupertino from the Bay Area every day. Nice people but they're second tier. They never critique Apple, think Apple is the best at everything, and shrug their shoulders at any technology developed…

> commute to Cupertino from the Bay Area every day

Cupertino is part of the Bay Area. 1 Infinite Loop is just south of the Sunnyvale border and 280. About two miles from El Camino Real. If you're going to make stuff up, at least consult a map first.

> EDIT: To poster below, with regards to the Bay Area which covers a large geographic region, I'm talking about the San Francisco peninsula area. Amongst people I know, Cupertino (which is in Santa Clara) is generally referred to as being in South Bay rather than the Bay Area.

South Bay, like East Bay, is a qualifier for a sub-region within the Bay Area. The peninsula is referred to as... the peninsula, not "the Bay Area". San Francisco specifically is either referred to as San Francisco, SF, or "the city". Santa Clara County is almost always referred to explicitly as such lest it be confused with the City of Santa Clara. When not speaking of governmental/political boundaries, one would more commonly say "Silicon Valley", "the valley", and sometimes its proper name of "Santa Clara Valley".

You have clearly spent little if any time in the bay area and are hardly qualified to make bigoted judgements about the caliber of engineers based on where they choose to live within it.

Re: Mac OS 10.9 – Infinity times your spam

#55

Post by blahedo »

Lagged2Death wrote: post #35

The 4 million message 32 bit limit of the UID field... Maybe I don't know how mail works, but shouldn't that be 4 billion? I imagine disk space would become an issue before a 32 bit identifier became an issue.

Yes, I noticed that too. I assume this was a brain fart on the part of the OP---2^32 is definitely 4 billion, not 4 million. (Well, approximately.)

Re: Mac OS 10.9 – Infinity times your spam

#56

Post by rsl7 »

matwood wrote: post #54

Is there another mail client for OSX that also supports gmail and s/mime? After the disaster that is the Mavericks Mail.app, I've started using Thunderbird. It can't be the only option out there.

I've been using PostBox for about two or three months. It's pretty nice, I especially like how it has attachments and image views in any folder, and dropbox integration.

gmail works extremely well.

Re: Mac OS 10.9 – Infinity times your spam

#57

Post by a-nom-a-ly »

lakwn wrote: post #33

I'm not an iOS user, but doesn't it sound a bit unprofessional for them to write such post on their main blog? Won't it piss off iOS users, who are not responsible for Apple's bad practices? I think such rants should indeed be made public, but maybe there was a better outlet for FastMail to do that.

Out of curiosity, do you mind explaining why you think it's unprofessional?

> Won't it piss off iOS users, who are not responsible for Apple's bad practices?

In many(most?) services abuse of the service is met with suspension, etc. IMHO this case clearly counts as an abuse of the system regardless of whose fault it is.

Re: Mac OS 10.9 – Infinity times your spam

#58

Post by rsl7 »

hboon wrote: post #2

Mail in Mavericks is bad. Since the previews, I have not been able to archive emails for Gmail accounts or Google Apps for Business. A subset of mails archived directly on Gmail will appear and stay in Mail's Inbox. I'm not sure where the developers for Mail went to that they didn't have the resources to fix it. Maybe to help with the iOS 7 crunch?

In my head, Mail.app was written for Steve, who I imagine was a read-reply-delete kind of a guy, and not much else mattered.

Re: Mac OS 10.9 – Infinity times your spam

#59

Post by blahedo »

UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #14
fit2rule wrote: post #4

sigh I really miss the good ol' days of e-mail, before all these Web 2.0 people hit the scene with their "let us scan your mail for other addresses" this and their "we'll keep a safe copy of your email as a backup, using IMAP" that .. Frankly, though, I blame MS Outlook. When it hit the scene, email became a thorny mess of standards, almost-standards, and not-standard at all .. and it seems the rest of the industry i…

I honestly have no clue what you're getting at with your first paragraph. Email hasn't changed very much in the last fifteen or more years, so I'm not sure what changes the "Web 2.0 people" made you're referring to, your examples are pretty odd ("scan other addresses" what?). Also keeping a backup of deleted messages for a period of time is standard industry practice and has been since before I or Linux were even bor…

I can't speak for Outlook's performance at the MTA level, but the user-facing parts break all sorts of expectations I have from twenty years of standards-compliant email. For instance---just at the tip of a very large iceberg---they have invented a completely new way of representing name/email pairs in the header fields, with the list separator being the semicolon, the email delimiter being square brackets, and a few other things. If I have a list of email addresses from some other source, I have to reformat it just to use it in Outlook.

I have to use Outlook Web Access at work (no alternatives), which is even worse than regular Outlook, and I'm keeping a list of all the ways its user-facing interface is broken. I left the list at work or I'd be able to rant for pages right now.

Re: Mac OS 10.9 – Infinity times your spam

#60

Post by dmbaggett »

If you're sick of the mail program that comes with your OS, try Inky (http://inky.com). It's still in beta, but we just put out a refreshed version that fixes a lot of issues users reported throughout 2013. Lots of polishing work still remains, but we're happily dog-fooding it and have a loyal following around the world. (And yes, Linux guys, we're still planning to release a version for Ubuntu -- finally.)

Inky is a clean-sheet mail client implementation written with Python and Chrome Embedded Framework. It's taken us several years to get it to this beta stage; give it a try and let us know your thoughts at . It's currently free; we'll likely offer upsell freemium versions at some point, once we're satisfied with it.

Mail is hard.

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