Mail.app has these issues consistently, across versions. Which is a real shame, because UX-wise it is a really fine mail client.
Also, threading algorithm changed slightly in Mavericks, leading to many more mistakes than ever before.
Mac OS 10.9 – Infinity times your spam
11–20 of 163 posts
Re: Mac OS 10.9 – Infinity times your spam
#12sigh I really miss the good ol' days of e-mail, before all these Web 2.0 people hit the scene with their "let us scan your mail for other addresses" this and their "we'll keep a safe copy of your email as a backup, using IMAP" that .. Frankly, though, I blame MS Outlook. When it hit the scene, email became a thorny mess of standards, almost-standards, and not-standard at all .. and it seems the rest of the industry i…
To be fair there was once a mess where e-mail was riddled with issues with charsets, bad MIME implementations, buggy QP-encoded headers and so on. Then there was the spam age. Then the no-client-actually-works age, which is where we are.
I don't think email ever worked well.
Re: Mac OS 10.9 – Infinity times your spam
#13This is good news: it seems as if Apple's quality control is improving. After all, there is no report here of Mail.app actually deleting messages[0] [EDIT: oh, well] or sending out hundreds of copies of a message.[1] Despite this improvement, however, I think I shall continue to avoid this company's software in favor of more mature, open source solutions.[2] [0]http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=12758…
To me it seems like QA is declining. I just experienced data loss with the new Mail.app 7.0: Moving mails out of inbox to another folder left a copy in the inbox. Deleting the copy in the inbox also irrevocably deleted the other copy in the other folder. Smart mailboxes just don't work properly, doesn't auto-refresh, incorrect non-refreshing or just plain random "unread email count" badges, table column "Mailbox" shows "Archive" no matter which folder a mail actually belongs to, random 100% cpu usage for extended periods of time even when left idle, etc. etc. etc.
The old version that shipped with 10.8.5 had none of these problem at all. Mail.app went from being perfect to being actively hostile :(
Re: Mac OS 10.9 – Infinity times your spam
#14sigh I really miss the good ol' days of e-mail, before all these Web 2.0 people hit the scene with their "let us scan your mail for other addresses" this and their "we'll keep a safe copy of your email as a backup, using IMAP" that .. Frankly, though, I blame MS Outlook. When it hit the scene, email became a thorny mess of standards, almost-standards, and not-standard at all .. and it seems the rest of the industry i…
I honestly have no clue what you're getting at with your first paragraph. Email hasn't changed very much in the last fifteen or more years, so I'm not sure what changes the "Web 2.0 people" made you're referring to, your examples are pretty odd ("scan other addresses" what?). Also keeping a backup of deleted messages for a period of time is standard industry practice and has been since before I or Linux were even born.
As far as MS Outlook and standards: That little rant reads like it was written about web-browsers and you just replaced "Internet Explorer" with "MS Outlook." MS Outlook uses a fairly standard implementation of IMAP/POP3/SMTP and has since forever. Microsoft have their own ActiveSync mechanism which isn't a standard, but no competing solutions have really appeared which compete with ActiveSync (and replace IMAP) so while you could blame them, you could also blame the complete lack of innovation in this space.
Re: Mac OS 10.9 – Infinity times your spam
#15Email is always a bitch. Google's implementation of IMAP is a disaster as well. I have yet to find any email app on any platform that I can't swear at daily. I even tried to write my own before sanity returned.
There are degrees: I doubt that Google's actually surprise-deletes users' email, for example. On the other hand, their SMTP servers have interesting issues[0].
"I have yet to find any email app on any platform that I can't swear at daily."
I've been using mutt for many years and have not found a single bug or issue. It's fast, powerful, ridiculously configurable, and never surprises me.
[0]http://lee-phillips.org/gmailRewriting/Re: Mac OS 10.9 – Infinity times your spam
#16Email is always a bitch. Google's implementation of IMAP is a disaster as well. I have yet to find any email app on any platform that I can't swear at daily. I even tried to write my own before sanity returned.
There are degrees: I doubt that Google's actually surprise-deletes users' email, for example. On the other hand, their SMTP servers have interesting issues[0]. "I have yet to find any email app on any platform that I can't swear at daily." I've been using mutt for many years and have not found a single bug or issue. It's fast, powerful, ridiculously configurable, and never surprises me. [0]http://lee-phillips.org/gma…
Mutt sucks less.
I've seen some bugs over the years, but very very few. I wouldn't use anything else.
I run mutt on a distant server, so I wrote a simple attachment handler that can save or view attachments locally. Despite my wishes, the real world does occasionally send me photos. :)
Re: Mac OS 10.9 – Infinity times your spam
#17Email is always a bitch. Google's implementation of IMAP is a disaster as well. I have yet to find any email app on any platform that I can't swear at daily. I even tried to write my own before sanity returned.
There are degrees: I doubt that Google's actually surprise-deletes users' email, for example. On the other hand, their SMTP servers have interesting issues[0]. "I have yet to find any email app on any platform that I can't swear at daily." I've been using mutt for many years and have not found a single bug or issue. It's fast, powerful, ridiculously configurable, and never surprises me. [0]http://lee-phillips.org/gma…
So THAT's what happens when I try to reply to ticketing systems with a mail+address-extension@example.com and it just keeps bouncing or creating new unlinked tickets :(
Re: Mac OS 10.9 – Infinity times your spam
#18From the comments I draw the conclusion that a solid, open source, GUI e-mail client would have great popularity. Are there such clients out there? I used Thunderbird under Linux but it feels cumbersome.
Re: Mac OS 10.9 – Infinity times your spam
#19Have you reproduced this problem yourselves? It sounds like you've seen it with exactly one user so far, whom you've not been able to contact. This strikes me as something that could just as easily be due to a pathological set of rules one user created.
Re: Mac OS 10.9 – Infinity times your spam
#20This is good news: it seems as if Apple's quality control is improving. After all, there is no report here of Mail.app actually deleting messages[0] [EDIT: oh, well] or sending out hundreds of copies of a message.[1] Despite this improvement, however, I think I shall continue to avoid this company's software in favor of more mature, open source solutions.[2] [0]http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=12758…
To me it seems like QA is declining. I just experienced data loss with the new Mail.app 7.0: Moving mails out of inbox to another folder left a copy in the inbox. Deleting the copy in the inbox also irrevocably deleted the other copy in the other folder. Smart mailboxes just don't work properly, doesn't auto-refresh, incorrect non-refreshing or just plain random "unread email count" badges, table column "Mailbox" sho…
The QA failure most shocking to me lately is that on 10.8.5 on their newest MacBook Airs, Apple forgot some file necessary to use the video camera in 32 bit mode and therefore broke Skype.
Microsoft, for all their faults, is notorious for having fantastic QA and not breaking old apps when they update Windows, and would never have let that happen. You'd think when you update the camera that you'd check such a popular app as Skype.
Point is, it seems like the Mail team isn't the only place QA is lacking at Apple.