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Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

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Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#541

Post by pjbrunet »

fredsanford wrote: post #531
pjbrunet wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, growing up in the 90s with awesome software that didn't need Windows. I loved DOS. And somebody else mentioned Amiga, probably the most awesome computer and community ever, too bad they went out of business. And OS/2 2.0 really impressed me, the ability to multitask Windows and DOS applications on the screen at the same time. So many interesting applications, too many to list here. So Microsoft in the 90s was li…

This is pretty much exactly how I feel... I started learning to code in 1988. DOS + Desqview, OS/2 1.x, OS/2 2.x, Some Early '90s Unix with 2 3foot x 3foot boxes of documentation... Texas A and M Linux, Yggdrasil... In all that time I used and tried to function with Windows, starting with 3.x. It didn't really work for me. Add to that the bundled aspect (which pissed me off greatly, I had to pay for a DOS/Windows lic…

Yes Quarterdeck (DESQview) was awesome for multitasking. I used it to run a multi-node BBS (two phone lines) on a 286! Multiplayer games, split-screen chat. Though for games Galacticom was so much more awesome at multitasking--I actually interviewed there in high school.

And don't forget Microsoft took a big crap on the Internet with free copies of Frontpage ;-)

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#542

Post by xerophtye »

mark_integerdsv wrote: post #526
efdee wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You sound like someone who hasn't used Windows 8 before, or not for longer than half a day anyways. Windows 8 in desktop mode really isn't any different from Windows 7, except for the fact that the Start menu is now fullscreen instead of a popup menu. Metro a mistake? That might be your opinion, but I fiercely disagree with it. Just because you don't like Metro, for whatever reason that might be, does not make it a m…

14 years experience in IT. Had to google to find the shutdown switch. Sorry but Win8 is absurd.

I wouldn't say absurd... just different. I mean, if you have been using windows for 14 years and are used to teh Maximize button, and then you use MacOS and click the box button beside the x and.. something COMPLETELY different happens. does that make MacOS absurd? or does that make windows absurd to Mac users? (while proponents of both OS would tell you YES it DOES make it absurd, but they are both WRONG aren't they?) Different isn't necessarily a bad design.

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#543

Post by xerophtye »

mcv wrote: post #391
CamperBob2 wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is not that MS is forcing choices on their desktop users. Apple, Google, Yahoo, and everyone else does that. The problem is that MS is forcing terrible choices on their desktop users. They had one job. One job. Don't screw up Windows. And what'd they do? They screwed up Windows. Metro was a mistake. And again, everybody else makes mistakes, too. But then they went full retard, and refused to backtrack. Th…

But they're not forcing you to use Windows 8, do they? In the days of DOS and Win 95, they used every dirty trick in the book to force competitors out of the market. Nowadays they can't do that anymore. A lot of software that was only available on DOS or Windows is now available on Mac and Linux. And even if you do need Windows, Win7 works fine. I feel forced to switch from XP to 7, but that's not such a terrible mov…

Or maybe it'll be better. Microsoft has a history of alternating good and bad products. XP, Vista, win7, Win8... just one example

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#544

Post by xerophtye »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #524
dykesa wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why so many people think a small text menu is better than a full page customizable selection screen with decent built-in search...

It's called "mental context." Also, what kind of drugs does one need to ingest to make it seem like a good idea to enforce UI conventions optimized for 4" cell phones on a user with a pair of 30" desktop monitors? Are we talking plant-based alkaloids, aromatic hydrocarbons, or what?

I guess it's a person to person thing. I am still on win7 and i usually have a lot of windows open, and i rarely ever browse through the start menu. What i usually do is press the windows button, and start typing the name of the program i wanna use. OR I press win+D to get straight to the desktop (a full screen menu consisting of things i frequently use) and choose from there.

So for someone like me, isn't the Metro Start menu good design? It has both the type-to-search thing and a full screen menu of icons i usually use.

Look i admit it seemed a little intimidating when i first saw it. Heck we have been using the start menu for more than a decade! It's almost part of our DNA now, so seeing the entire screen change in place of a menu is.... unexpected. But is it really that bad? Do you REALLY still browse through the start menu?

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#545

Post by efdee »

mark_integerdsv wrote: post #526
efdee wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You sound like someone who hasn't used Windows 8 before, or not for longer than half a day anyways. Windows 8 in desktop mode really isn't any different from Windows 7, except for the fact that the Start menu is now fullscreen instead of a popup menu. Metro a mistake? That might be your opinion, but I fiercely disagree with it. Just because you don't like Metro, for whatever reason that might be, does not make it a m…

14 years experience in IT. Had to google to find the shutdown switch. Sorry but Win8 is absurd.

Your computer's power button functions as a shutdown switch. After 14 years in IT, you have never realised that?

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#547

Post by CamperBob2 »

xerophtye wrote: post #544
CamperBob2 wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's called "mental context." Also, what kind of drugs does one need to ingest to make it seem like a good idea to enforce UI conventions optimized for 4" cell phones on a user with a pair of 30" desktop monitors? Are we talking plant-based alkaloids, aromatic hydrocarbons, or what?

I guess it's a person to person thing. I am still on win7 and i usually have a lot of windows open, and i rarely ever browse through the start menu. What i usually do is press the windows button, and start typing the name of the program i wanna use. OR I press win+D to get straight to the desktop (a full screen menu consisting of things i frequently use) and choose from there. So for someone like me, isn't the Metro…

What i usually do is press the windows button, and start typing the name of the program i wanna use.

This debate was settled when Windows replaced MS-DOS. Most users do not want to remember, or type, the names of the programs they want to use.

Do you REALLY still browse through the start menu?

Yes, frequently.

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#548

Post by xerophtye »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #547
xerophtye wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it's a person to person thing. I am still on win7 and i usually have a lot of windows open, and i rarely ever browse through the start menu. What i usually do is press the windows button, and start typing the name of the program i wanna use. OR I press win+D to get straight to the desktop (a full screen menu consisting of things i frequently use) and choose from there. So for someone like me, isn't the Metro…

What i usually do is press the windows button, and start typing the name of the program i wanna use. This debate was settled when Windows replaced MS-DOS. Most users do not want to remember, or type, the names of the programs they want to use. Do you REALLY still browse through the start menu? Yes, frequently.

Then you are simply a different user type.

Btw I presume from the bit about ms dos that you dont llike shells. But thats ur preference

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#549

Post by tluyben2 »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #350
tluyben2 wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool. Wish I could be there :) No such stuff in the EU as far as I know :/ And yes I know; but this gives some background maybe of why people would hate MS so much. They have been stung too many times in the (recent) past to allow anything of theirs to rise to fame. I know quite a lot of (older) people who are like that for the reasons I detailed. I upvoted the Nokia tablet story and of course it did not deserve to b…

I also look forward to chatting with Gilad Bracha, many of the Google PL people will be there that I don't get to see very often. EU has ECOOP (every) and PLDI (this) year, I also went this summer to a nice workshop in Leiden on language design. I have good ideas on why people dislike Microsoft, but it baffles me that they hate it enough to play dirty in getting those stories revoked. Why would they even bother comme…

Thanks for the heads up about the EU events (and people)!

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#550

Post by tluyben2 »

esw wrote: post #403
tluyben2 wrote: post #331

First of all let me say that of the research I follow, MS research is definitely in my top list. And you personally (with non MSR people like Jonathan Edwards) are among the few who try to help the crap we call programming which I hope you will pursue for a long time. I follow your research and your comments on HN. On MS (mostly opinion here as most posters in this kind of thread): I used to love MS in the 80s, becau…

Oh, but 3.1 was freaking light years ahead of Windows 286/386. It was the first remotely usable version of Windows.

But it wasn't usable IMHO. While the competition did have usable software.
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