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Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

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Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#521

Post by dykesa »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #476
notahacker wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh come off it. Name me an established software company that hasn't forced choices on their desktop users that many of them have considered "terrible". Over a similar timescale Apple has been responsible for the debacle that was Apple Maps (to reduce dependence on Google) and the dubious aesthetics of iOS7 whilst Google and Yahoo have forced millions of users to choose other services as they go on shutdown rampages (…

The issue was never about the loss of the Start button. It was about the loss of the Start menu . That hasn't been fixed. I don't understand why so many people fall for this misdirection.

I don't understand why so many people think a small text menu is better than a full page customizable selection screen with decent built-in search...

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#523

Post by xgarland »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #304
xgarland wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. The cry for attention from the Microsoft community is becoming a bit annoying, especially on HN.

Says the new account just created :)

While I may not contribute much to the chatter here on HN, I have recognized an insane amount of whining from the MSFT community. Again, this is based upon my experience and observations during my time here :)

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#524

Post by CamperBob2 »

dykesa wrote: post #521
CamperBob2 wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue was never about the loss of the Start button. It was about the loss of the Start menu . That hasn't been fixed. I don't understand why so many people fall for this misdirection.

I don't understand why so many people think a small text menu is better than a full page customizable selection screen with decent built-in search...

It's called "mental context."

Also, what kind of drugs does one need to ingest to make it seem like a good idea to enforce UI conventions optimized for 4" cell phones on a user with a pair of 30" desktop monitors? Are we talking plant-based alkaloids, aromatic hydrocarbons, or what?

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#525

Post by joe_the_user »

PakG1 wrote: post #265
joe_the_user wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, I didn't accuse you but I did accuse another poster of being an MS shill. I'll admit I could have been more diplomatic. Still, as I recall, the person I accused was a professional "evangelist" (or something similar) for MS by their own admission writing an article about, what do you know, hatred of MS. And that's the thing. By the evangelist's own admission, MS is deeply hated in society at large. It's understand…

Just consider. The very recent imposition of the Metro/Windows 8 interface on a widely unwilling public is prima facie evidence of MS' continuing abuse of it's particular monopoly. If they were truly a monopoly, they would not have seen it as important to respond and revise Windows 8. Real monopolies can abuse their customers and have no qualms about it. Microsoft is no longer in that position, so they changed direct…

If they were truly a monopoly, they would not have seen it as important to respond and revise Windows 8.

Obviously things aren't black and white, we're arguing the degree of monopoly of MS. Consider, yes, eventually you hit the elephant hard enough with a 2x4 and it responds. It didn't respond much even then. And even government granted, official monopolies respond a little bit criticism.

Real monopolies can abuse their customers and have no qualms about it.

Many people would view MS as being just that way. But sure, maybe there's some leeway. But "no monopoly power" is bending the stick ridiculously far in the other direction. I mean, MS is convicted monopolist. They already lost a lawsuit in the 90's. [1] MS' strangle-hold PC operating system remains the same even if other markets (the web, the phone etc) have risen. (Edit: Consider, if MS did face competition in the PC operating system market, they might feel pressure to improve the PC rather than just milking their position for the purpose of entering other markets.)

And besides, it's not like they didn't have a public beta program in the first place.

Now there's some counter evidence to all your earlier argument. All the beta people were expressing shock and horror and MS did ... nothing.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp.

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#526

Post by mark_integerdsv »

efdee wrote: post #367
CamperBob2 wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is not that MS is forcing choices on their desktop users. Apple, Google, Yahoo, and everyone else does that. The problem is that MS is forcing terrible choices on their desktop users. They had one job. One job. Don't screw up Windows. And what'd they do? They screwed up Windows. Metro was a mistake. And again, everybody else makes mistakes, too. But then they went full retard, and refused to backtrack. Th…

You sound like someone who hasn't used Windows 8 before, or not for longer than half a day anyways. Windows 8 in desktop mode really isn't any different from Windows 7, except for the fact that the Start menu is now fullscreen instead of a popup menu. Metro a mistake? That might be your opinion, but I fiercely disagree with it. Just because you don't like Metro, for whatever reason that might be, does not make it a m…

14 years experience in IT. Had to google to find the shutdown switch. Sorry but Win8 is absurd.

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#527

Post by [deleted] »

sudomal wrote: post #354
iamshs wrote: post #40

In that particular thread, I was accused of being a shill and an astroturfer by 3 members. All of the accusers had karma greater than 1500, and atleast two of them were on HN since at least 2 years. Why? Because I posted the spec list of the tablet. And I do not have allegiance to any of the tech companies at all, except having used their products one time or another. MS hate is vicious on here. I remember recoiledsn…

Bear in mind that Microsoft isn't exactly a well regarded player with the tech crowd. Many of us grew up watching our favourite technologies being assimilated and/or wiped out by them, so there is always going to be suspicion and resentment.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#528

Post by adamconroy »

adamconroy wrote: post #300
pg wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be a risky strategy because those commenters could get banned.

I didn't know I could be banned. Now that has piqued my interest, sounds like a challenge.

Okay, looks like I am on track. Attempt at humour is a gateway drug to being banned.

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#529

Post by duncan_bayne »

Personally, I remember when the Halloween Documents came out:

http://www.catb.org/esr/halloween/

Amongst other things, they spelled out how Microsoft intended to 'embrace and extend' standards in order to break interoperability.

If you want to know why people don't trust Microsoft, years later, have a read of them.

Re: Ask HN: Why the Microsoft hate?

#530

Post by ehaughee »

rounak wrote: post #363
georgemcbay wrote: post #142

I (speaking for myself, obviously, not anyone else on HN) don't hate Microsoft. I use Windows! Windows 8 in fact! For context because I'm sure some people (I do think there is an anti-MS bias here on HN, though not as pronounced as OP thinks it is) may think I'm some stereotypical Microsoft-using rube. I grew up in the 80s, programming first on the C64 (BASIC, 6510 Assembler), then Amiga, then various UNIX systems (S…

Under the assumption that you're a developer, how do you deal with the lack of a great Terminal/Command line interface on Windows?

As a .Net (work) and FOSS* (free time) developer, I find that the ecosystem just doesn't require the use of the CLI nearly as much. Sure, you can interact with TFS from the CLI (and maybe it's better, I don't know) but the first exposure most have to it is GUI so you learn that way. That's just one example but Visual Studio et. al. tend to take care of many things I use the CLI for on OS X/Linux systems, via a GUI. I'm certainly not saying it's better but it is better than most CLI-gone-GUI tools I've used in the FOSS world. I think this is because Windows dev tools are built for the GUI first (and often have a complete lack of, or a lacking support for, CLI UX) first as opposed to many FOSS tools that assume an understanding of the CLI and are built for that first. Personally I enjoy CLI and, while it has a steeper learning curve, I am more productive with my definition of a "proper" CLI (bash, zsh, etc.) than without. So I am attempting to learn Powershell in order to regain some of lost productivity on Windows. But, that's just me. I know many .Net devs that don't feel that productivity loss without a CLI.

* I use Ruby, Python, and Javascript/Node.JS on a Mac for side projects.

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