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Apple’s WWDC-Closing ‘Fuck You’ to iPhone Developers

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Re: Apple’s WWDC-Closing ‘Fuck You’ to iPhone Developers

#91

Post by jstevens85 »

madair wrote: post #37
heresy wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People will accept it while the market exists. The alternatives simply do not have the consumer mindshare that the iPhone does, which is unfortunate.

Well, from all I'm hearing, it's not like iPhone is the get-rich-quick scheme that lots of devs were hoping for. I realize some people feel all hip with a iPhone in their pocket, but I don't think the devs really have enough reason to stick with Apple through this behavior. I certainly don't.

Here's an interesting article about a four-man game developer working on the iPhone:

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=23785

"And certainly, we would love to be developing for a Nokia platform if they have solved the same problems as elegantly as Apple has delivered their solution. But the fact is that for the same success as the iPhone has become, you need an unfragmented platform on the hardware level. You need a good SDK."

JL: "Include enough base level of hardware. It can't be some software rendering or no hardware rendering chip. And the fragmentation, it creates this awful disparity of the games, so you have to support software rendering and make everything scale to that. Any high end games use the hardware rendering, but that's a lot of cost to make it two times."

"On the iPhone, you can actually work as an independent publisher, and you can own your IP. You can publish it because there are no huge challenges. If we're bringing that IP to the mobile space, and if we wanted to self-publish it, we would actually have to build the technology or hire hundreds of hourly wageworkers to port to that mass of handsets.

And we can't afford that as an indie. Then we would have to go through a publisher, the publisher would want to own the IP, and then we would be stuck in the same hand-to-mouth loop, the kind of vicious circle that many traditional mobile developers are in. Their only chance is to pitch their next project to the publisher and then work on their mouth opening strategy."

As people that previously worked doing 3D on mobile, which was quite a task, how have you found the iPhone hardware in terms of working with it?

JL: "I think it's absolutely beautiful to work with in the API and the technical side as well. Because it's a standard API, Open GL ES, it's so easy to work with, I think."

"And because the operating system is based on some Unix, even that allows me to deliver all the knowledge that I have. Just pick some code that works in Unix or Linux, and it works on iPhone as well, so mostly, it's much easier. It's one of the easiest platforms that I have ever worked with."

Re: Apple’s WWDC-Closing ‘Fuck You’ to iPhone Developers

#92

Post by timdorr »

lacker wrote: post #80
sachinag wrote: post #2

The iPhone is a terrible platform for the vast, vast majority of developers. The process of getting on board, promotion, and success is a total black hole. First movers such as ngmoco and Tapulous have done well; people with better apps - for free - have failed. Maaaaaaaybe 3.0 makes it easier for niche plays to work; certainly, as far as I can tell, add-on payments aren't supported in Palm's marketplace. I do think…

The iPhone is a terrible platform for the vast, vast majority of developers. No. You want a terrible platform, you try writing software for the Nokia platform. Or heck, try any other phone platform besides the iPhone. It's not a coincidence more apps are sold for the iPhone than for any other platform. Apple has provided the best user experience and has the most users who are willing to buy apps. They are doing you a…

I wouldn't call a service that's rejected apps seemingly on a reviewer's whim with no recourse or dispute process "not perfect"; I'd call that downright abysmal.

I've had one of my apps rejected because I used the an icon incorrectly (it was for submitting a request, but the icon was only supposed to be used for sending messages. huh?). A tiny change in IB and it was accepted a week later. Yet crap like this gets through no problem: http://ralovely.com/downloads/triplog1040.png And that's not even a bad case by a long shot.

Based on Apple's own numbers, about 1 in 20 app store submissions are being rejected. There's no way to know how many of those are legitimate rejections (I'm willing to bet a lot), but that's a pretty scary number of apps that should be let through that aren't.

The changes they need to make to drastically improve the experience for devs are really minor. I don't know why Apple's making them, other than a tradition of insane levels of secrecy in their corporate culture. That or they're just too embarrassed to let people see into their review structure. Either way, something is broken.

Re: Apple’s WWDC-Closing ‘Fuck You’ to iPhone Developers

#93

Post by axod »

vorador wrote: post #70
GHFigs wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The boot loader is likewise software which you do not own. You're free to replace it along with any other software.

But practically it's impossible to write a bootloader with equivalent functionnality.

Software's hard! Let's go shopping!

Re: Apple’s WWDC-Closing ‘Fuck You’ to iPhone Developers

#94

Post by axod »

kingsley_20 wrote: post #54
jonknee wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess that depends on the user. The user who wanted basic stuff like MMS, multi-tasking and tethering hasn't been getting the best experience.

Other "basic" stuff not in the iphone: pedometer, dual bootability and quantum teleportation. OK, I'll give you MMS.

MMS is useful for talking to old legacy phones :/ Nice to have, but hardly critical.

Re: Apple’s WWDC-Closing ‘Fuck You’ to iPhone Developers

#95

Post by bjelkeman-again »

davidw wrote: post #75
andrewljohnson wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My only answer is, the market has spoken. Apple's process may be kludgy and untransparent at times, but they have the dominant App Store and phone for a reason. Some how they have succeeded in enthralling tons of developers and tons of end users. I can't help think that part of that is that because the process is actually pretty good in the scheme of things. It would be really expensive to deal with every bitchy deve…

"Dominant" is an arguable point - Apple's actual market share, especially here in Europe, is not huge - actually it's fairly small, although of course they only have one phone, whereas companies like Nokia have a large range. Obviously, the iPhone has made a huge impact though - it's clear to everyone that they're leaders. We'll see where things go.

I am a European, I don't know a single person who buys apps on anything else than the Apple App Store. I call that Dominant. Frankly the concept was quite unheard of before the App Store (i.e. other stores existed, but nobody cared). Nokia has a large range of phones, but until know they haven't shown they know how to run a platform. Although I am sure that will change.

Re: Apple’s WWDC-Closing ‘Fuck You’ to iPhone Developers

#96

Post by davidw »

bjelkeman-again wrote: post #95
davidw wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Dominant" is an arguable point - Apple's actual market share, especially here in Europe, is not huge - actually it's fairly small, although of course they only have one phone, whereas companies like Nokia have a large range. Obviously, the iPhone has made a huge impact though - it's clear to everyone that they're leaders. We'll see where things go.

I am a European, I don't know a single person who buys apps on anything else than the Apple App Store. I call that Dominant. Frankly the concept was quite unheard of before the App Store (i.e. other stores existed, but nobody cared). Nokia has a large range of phones, but until know they haven't shown they know how to run a platform. Although I am sure that will change.

Oh, to be clear I was talking about the phone. They are certainly way ahead in terms of their app store. However, I'd still bet that the number of people buying apps on Apple's store is tiny compared to the number of phone users, so there's a big 'negative space' to consider there.

Come to think of it though, in terms of buying things, the 'biggest' market is probably all those crappy ring tones and things of that ilk, although it's probably not of much interest to 'hacker news' types.

Re: Apple’s WWDC-Closing ‘Fuck You’ to iPhone Developers

#97

Post by jodrellblank »

zmimon wrote: post #63
jodrellblank wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iPhone owners should be able to install whatever they want on the device they purchased. Why? It's such an entrenched idea, but you don't get to rewrite paragraphs of books, or scenes in films, or suits in a pack of playing cards or the firmware in your alarm clock. The iPhone is sold as is, why should we expect to use it any differently?

> The iPhone is sold as is, why should we expect to use it any differently? Wow. It's almost sickening to see the inversion of the principles of software freedom that Apple is able to get away with and not get criticized in the fanboi community. Geeks have been lambasting Microsoft for merely having proprietary formats for 20 years. They even got fined for billions of dollars just for not documenting their protocols…

And instead of answering the question, you bring Microsoft and the FSF into it and call me a fanboi. Again - it's only restricted if you look at it from the POV of a general purpose open and free computer, and that's not what it's sold as.

Why are you trying to restrict what Apple can sell so it only covers devices that conform to your standards?

Re: Apple’s WWDC-Closing ‘Fuck You’ to iPhone Developers

#98

Post by djehuty »

cubicle67 wrote: post #84
whatusername wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard of a couple of complaints about low signal strength. (compared to other phones on the same network). (this was in Oz - think it may have been optus)

Possibly, but that's because Optus has a pretty sucky network for everyone. I understand (from reading whirlpool) that their new 3G network is not iPhone compatible as it's 900MHz

I think your information's out of date. I use Optus 3G on an iPhone in an area which was in exactly that position, but they upgraded a week before the iPhone came out. I think that upgrade happened nationwide. (Not that it's relevant to this thread, I know, but...)

Re: Apple’s WWDC-Closing ‘Fuck You’ to iPhone Developers

#99

Post by jodrellblank »

zacharypinter wrote: post #19
jodrellblank wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iPhone owners should be able to install whatever they want on the device they purchased. Why? It's such an entrenched idea, but you don't get to rewrite paragraphs of books, or scenes in films, or suits in a pack of playing cards or the firmware in your alarm clock. The iPhone is sold as is, why should we expect to use it any differently?

That's a valid question. I tend to take it as a given, considering that the iPhone is essentially a miniature computer and the past decade or so has thrived on customizable, hackable personal computers. Apple has always wanted to assert extra control on the products they ship. With Mac's, they've controlled the hardware. Now they're trying to control the software. Imagine a version of OS X where every application had…

I agree, I want to think of it as a miniature computer too. But it's not sold as an open computing platform, it's sold as an Apple approved limited computing platform. That's what you buy and that's what you get, and I don't really see why Apple should not be allowed to make and sell a product like that.

Re: Apple’s WWDC-Closing ‘Fuck You’ to iPhone Developers

#100

Post by rimantas »

timdorr wrote: post #92
lacker wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The iPhone is a terrible platform for the vast, vast majority of developers. No. You want a terrible platform, you try writing software for the Nokia platform. Or heck, try any other phone platform besides the iPhone. It's not a coincidence more apps are sold for the iPhone than for any other platform. Apple has provided the best user experience and has the most users who are willing to buy apps. They are doing you a…

I wouldn't call a service that's rejected apps seemingly on a reviewer's whim with no recourse or dispute process "not perfect"; I'd call that downright abysmal. I've had one of my apps rejected because I used the an icon incorrectly (it was for submitting a request, but the icon was only supposed to be used for sending messages. huh?). A tiny change in IB and it was accepted a week later. Yet crap like this gets thr…

I agree with your first sentence but the point is that application acceptance to AppStore policy does not constitute entire platform. I am curious, why this part of the otherwise very nice platform is so screwed.
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