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Apple’s WWDC-Closing ‘Fuck You’ to iPhone Developers

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Re: Apple’s WWDC-Closing ‘Fuck You’ to iPhone Developers

#71

Post by telemachuszero »

beamso wrote: post #62
djehuty wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure that's AT&T. I'm in Australia and there's been no such problem personally or from anything I've heard.

I've had issues on Telstra. Sometimes the phone UI will prevent you from answering the call. Sometimes the phone crashes mid-call. Sometimes you answer the phone and you can hear the other party but they can't here you.

A similar thing happens on my Sony Ericsson S500 phone on Vodafone.

I don't know if it's the phone or the network - I haven't done much testing. It's quite irritating pressing the answer button repeatedly and the phone not answering the call, or when I call someone and I end up unable to hear them while they can hear me.

Re: Apple’s WWDC-Closing ‘Fuck You’ to iPhone Developers

#72

Post by brooksbp »

sachinag wrote: post #2

The iPhone is a terrible platform for the vast, vast majority of developers. The process of getting on board, promotion, and success is a total black hole. First movers such as ngmoco and Tapulous have done well; people with better apps - for free - have failed. Maaaaaaaybe 3.0 makes it easier for niche plays to work; certainly, as far as I can tell, add-on payments aren't supported in Palm's marketplace. I do think…

The floggings will continue until morale improves...

Re: Apple’s WWDC-Closing ‘Fuck You’ to iPhone Developers

#73

Post by GHFigs »

fatdog789 wrote: post #69
GHFigs wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true, as evidienced by the existence of jailbreaking, unlocking, etc. Apple has not taken any legal action against people for doing these things. What legal action they have taken has been against people allegedly infringing on their software copyrights. The difference is crucial.

No, it's not. They haven't yet gone after people who jailbreak their phones. That doesn't mean they won't. And btw, they have gone after sites that talk about how to jailbreak the iPhone. Copyright was just an excuse.

That doesn't mean they won't.

On what grounds would they aside from copyright?

Copyright was just an excuse.

I don't understand. Are you saying they have not had legitimate copyright claims, or that they have but that they are somehow irrelevant?

Re: Apple’s WWDC-Closing ‘Fuck You’ to iPhone Developers

#74

Post by Zev »

fatdog789 wrote: post #69
GHFigs wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true, as evidienced by the existence of jailbreaking, unlocking, etc. Apple has not taken any legal action against people for doing these things. What legal action they have taken has been against people allegedly infringing on their software copyrights. The difference is crucial.

No, it's not. They haven't yet gone after people who jailbreak their phones. That doesn't mean they won't. And btw, they have gone after sites that talk about how to jailbreak the iPhone. Copyright was just an excuse.

* They haven't yet gone after people who jailbreak their phones*

I like how you can predict the future... How else do you know what a company is going to do, before the company does it?

Re: Apple’s WWDC-Closing ‘Fuck You’ to iPhone Developers

#75

Post by davidw »

andrewljohnson wrote: post #61
gcheong wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think all the developers want is some clear guidelines and transparency into the approval process and some recourse when they feel they have a good argument why their rejected apps should be approved. I think if those two things were in place, most developers would be satisfied. As things stand now, your app is just an update away from rejection by Apple and they don't even have to give you a reason.

My only answer is, the market has spoken. Apple's process may be kludgy and untransparent at times, but they have the dominant App Store and phone for a reason. Some how they have succeeded in enthralling tons of developers and tons of end users. I can't help think that part of that is that because the process is actually pretty good in the scheme of things. It would be really expensive to deal with every bitchy deve…

"Dominant" is an arguable point - Apple's actual market share, especially here in Europe, is not huge - actually it's fairly small, although of course they only have one phone, whereas companies like Nokia have a large range. Obviously, the iPhone has made a huge impact though - it's clear to everyone that they're leaders. We'll see where things go.

Re: Apple’s WWDC-Closing ‘Fuck You’ to iPhone Developers

#76

Post by nostrademons »

GHFigs wrote: post #53
ankhmoop wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's the boot loader, locked to the device that they own, that actively blocks loading unsigned software.

The boot loader is likewise software which you do not own. You're free to replace it along with any other software.

I'm kinda curious how Apple would respond if someone did come up with a custom bootloader and OS that worked on the iPhone...

Ah well. There's always Android.

Re: Apple’s WWDC-Closing ‘Fuck You’ to iPhone Developers

#77

Post by lacker »

bluefish wrote: post #27
sachinag wrote: post #2

The iPhone is a terrible platform for the vast, vast majority of developers. The process of getting on board, promotion, and success is a total black hole. First movers such as ngmoco and Tapulous have done well; people with better apps - for free - have failed. Maaaaaaaybe 3.0 makes it easier for niche plays to work; certainly, as far as I can tell, add-on payments aren't supported in Palm's marketplace. I do think…

Frankly, it's what you would expect from them. An abuser doesn't stop beating when you confront him; he stops beating you when you leave. I'm not an iPhone developer, nor have I ever developed anything for the Mac platform specifically. Based on the stories I've read online it does sound like Apple isn't handling their iPhone app store well, but I do take issue with the part of your comment I've quoted. I'd like some…

Based on the stories I've read online it does sound like Apple isn't handling their iPhone app store well.

Those stories are the worst experiences and are not representative of the majority of iPhone development. The Apple app store is handled worlds better than any other phone. No other platform is even usable to the extent that you see people complain about it.

Re: Apple’s WWDC-Closing ‘Fuck You’ to iPhone Developers

#78

Post by GHFigs »

ujjwalg wrote: post #66
GHFigs wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You own a copy of the book, but you do not own the contents of the book. Similarly, the owner of an iPhone owns the hardware, but does not own the software. Claiming that one should have the same rights over Apple's software that you have over a copy of a book that you own strikes me as nonsensical. I understand that people want Apple's software to allow certain things, but I think stating it as if Apple is impinging…

The point I am saying is that when I buy the book, I can do whatever I want with the content as long as it is for my own personal use and am not distributing it. I am not sure why you think its not true or nonsensical by any means. And the same is true for software. All they should do is void warranty if someone tempers with the OS. Same for books.

I am not sure why you think its not true or nonsensical by any means.

It's a very simple point: there is a difference in the rights you have over hardware and software just as there is a difference in the rights you have over a book and the contents of the book. Pretending that the rules of one should apply to the other is nonsensical.

The reason this distinction is important is that many people claim that Apple is impinging upon their rights with the restrictions built into the OS, but they don't actually have any rights over the OS and ownership of the hardware does not grant them any. By analogy, owning a book does not grant you any rights over the copyrighted contents. People readily understand the latter, but seem to violently reject the former.

All they should do is void warranty if someone tempers with the OS.

That is all they do. Why would you think otherwise?

Re: Apple’s WWDC-Closing ‘Fuck You’ to iPhone Developers

#79

Post by lacker »

gcheong wrote: post #56
andrewljohnson wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always respond this way, and I always get scorned here. But, the iPhone platform has worked for us. Updates have been a bit slow, but we feel like we have been rewarded for our work. Some things are tricky and unintuitive, but that's the way it is in any market. Selling a product just isn't easy. You are always fighting against smart people, and there are unknowns. I feel like people shouldn't get into the App Stor…

I think all the developers want is some clear guidelines and transparency into the approval process and some recourse when they feel they have a good argument why their rejected apps should be approved. I think if those two things were in place, most developers would be satisfied. As things stand now, your app is just an update away from rejection by Apple and they don't even have to give you a reason.

I really can't understand why so many people are angry about the app store. No other company has managed to put together a market for phone software of comparable size and ease of development. Nokia, Windows Mobile, Blackberry, Android, Palm, they are all trying but failing to create a user experience within striking distance of the iPhone app store.

So how can you complain?? If it weren't for Apple it would be orders of magnitude harder to make money on phone software.

Re: Apple’s WWDC-Closing ‘Fuck You’ to iPhone Developers

#80

Post by lacker »

sachinag wrote: post #2

The iPhone is a terrible platform for the vast, vast majority of developers. The process of getting on board, promotion, and success is a total black hole. First movers such as ngmoco and Tapulous have done well; people with better apps - for free - have failed. Maaaaaaaybe 3.0 makes it easier for niche plays to work; certainly, as far as I can tell, add-on payments aren't supported in Palm's marketplace. I do think…

The iPhone is a terrible platform for the vast, vast majority of developers.

No. You want a terrible platform, you try writing software for the Nokia platform. Or heck, try any other phone platform besides the iPhone. It's not a coincidence more apps are sold for the iPhone than for any other platform.

Apple has provided the best user experience and has the most users who are willing to buy apps. They are doing you a great service by allowing third party apps and promoting apps that hit their "best of" lists for free. Just because the experience isn't perfect doesn't mean Apple is "fucking over iPhone devs".

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