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Apple’s WWDC-Closing ‘Fuck You’ to iPhone Developers

daringfireball.net

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Re: Apple’s WWDC-Closing ‘Fuck You’ to iPhone Developers

#21

Post by sachinag »

Zev wrote: post #16
sachinag wrote: post #2

The iPhone is a terrible platform for the vast, vast majority of developers. The process of getting on board, promotion, and success is a total black hole. First movers such as ngmoco and Tapulous have done well; people with better apps - for free - have failed. Maaaaaaaybe 3.0 makes it easier for niche plays to work; certainly, as far as I can tell, add-on payments aren't supported in Palm's marketplace. I do think…

But they act like jerks. With the exception of the session that is mentioned in this article, I'm going to have to disagree. To counter with my own anecdote in here, I work on a few apps (mac and iphone) and every time I went down to a lab to talk to an engineer directly, I was able to get help and have my problem solved. Issues ranged from bugs in Apple's code (with 10.6, and will be fixed by release) to App Portal/…

http://daringfireball.net/2009/05/diary_of_an_app_store_revi...

This wouldn't have gotten the love it did if it didn't ring all-too-true to all-too-many people.

Re: Apple’s WWDC-Closing ‘Fuck You’ to iPhone Developers

#22

Post by GHFigs »

sachinag wrote: post #21
Zev wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they act like jerks. With the exception of the session that is mentioned in this article, I'm going to have to disagree. To counter with my own anecdote in here, I work on a few apps (mac and iphone) and every time I went down to a lab to talk to an engineer directly, I was able to get help and have my problem solved. Issues ranged from bugs in Apple's code (with 10.6, and will be fixed by release) to App Portal/…

http://daringfireball.net/2009/05/diary_of_an_app_store_revi... This wouldn't have gotten the love it did if it didn't ring all-too-true to all-too-many people.

Ringing true doesn't make it true.

I’ve also learned that many of the problems aren’t intentional: many parts of Apple’s internal infrastructure are overloaded or extremely outdated, and they’re scrambling to keep up with their growth, often ineffectively.

One major surprise was when an Apple employee told me that the App Store reviewers are not outsourced: they’re all direct, full-time Apple employees. Many of them work nights and weekends to keep up with the extremely high submission volume, and they’re constantly expanding the staff to keep up with the submission growth.

Source? Why, the very same post that Gruber is quoting in this submission.

Re: Apple’s WWDC-Closing ‘Fuck You’ to iPhone Developers

#23

Post by Zev »

sachinag wrote: post #21
Zev wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they act like jerks. With the exception of the session that is mentioned in this article, I'm going to have to disagree. To counter with my own anecdote in here, I work on a few apps (mac and iphone) and every time I went down to a lab to talk to an engineer directly, I was able to get help and have my problem solved. Issues ranged from bugs in Apple's code (with 10.6, and will be fixed by release) to App Portal/…

http://daringfireball.net/2009/05/diary_of_an_app_store_revi... This wouldn't have gotten the love it did if it didn't ring all-too-true to all-too-many people.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. I mentioned the iPhone Dev Portal, and code-level issues having problems solved, not that the App Store was magically fixed with 5 minutes of talking to an engineer.

Re: Apple’s WWDC-Closing ‘Fuck You’ to iPhone Developers

#24

Post by ankhmoop »

Zev wrote: post #16
sachinag wrote: post #2

The iPhone is a terrible platform for the vast, vast majority of developers. The process of getting on board, promotion, and success is a total black hole. First movers such as ngmoco and Tapulous have done well; people with better apps - for free - have failed. Maaaaaaaybe 3.0 makes it easier for niche plays to work; certainly, as far as I can tell, add-on payments aren't supported in Palm's marketplace. I do think…

But they act like jerks. With the exception of the session that is mentioned in this article, I'm going to have to disagree. To counter with my own anecdote in here, I work on a few apps (mac and iphone) and every time I went down to a lab to talk to an engineer directly, I was able to get help and have my problem solved. Issues ranged from bugs in Apple's code (with 10.6, and will be fixed by release) to App Portal/…

Apple, Inc., not its individual developers, treats iPhone developers horribly. As a rule, Apple shields itself with layer upon layer of corporate bureaucratic armor, and the value of WWDC is cutting through that nonsense. However, at the one session about the appstore submission process, Apple stonewalled developers.

Re: Apple’s WWDC-Closing ‘Fuck You’ to iPhone Developers

#25

Post by joubert »

sachinag wrote: post #2

The iPhone is a terrible platform for the vast, vast majority of developers. The process of getting on board, promotion, and success is a total black hole. First movers such as ngmoco and Tapulous have done well; people with better apps - for free - have failed. Maaaaaaaybe 3.0 makes it easier for niche plays to work; certainly, as far as I can tell, add-on payments aren't supported in Palm's marketplace. I do think…

And yet, don't iPhone USERS have the best user experience of any (mobile) platform?

Re: Apple’s WWDC-Closing ‘Fuck You’ to iPhone Developers

#26

Post by silencio »

Zev wrote: post #18
tlrobinson wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most (if not all) talks at WWDC are covered by NDA, and have been in recent memory. It's just Apple's style.

Indeed. IIRC, even Stump the Experts was covered by NDA this year — and that definitely doesn't cover anything new.

just assume that everything minus the keynote is under nda no matter what it is, including the lunchtime sessions. always has been, will likely not change.

Re: Apple’s WWDC-Closing ‘Fuck You’ to iPhone Developers

#27

Post by bluefish »

sachinag wrote: post #2

The iPhone is a terrible platform for the vast, vast majority of developers. The process of getting on board, promotion, and success is a total black hole. First movers such as ngmoco and Tapulous have done well; people with better apps - for free - have failed. Maaaaaaaybe 3.0 makes it easier for niche plays to work; certainly, as far as I can tell, add-on payments aren't supported in Palm's marketplace. I do think…

Frankly, it's what you would expect from them. An abuser doesn't stop beating when you confront him; he stops beating you when you leave.

I'm not an iPhone developer, nor have I ever developed anything for the Mac platform specifically. Based on the stories I've read online it does sound like Apple isn't handling their iPhone app store well, but I do take issue with the part of your comment I've quoted.

I'd like some examples about why you would expect to be treated poorly (or as you put it abused) by Apple. Is it only based on their track record with app developers? If so perhaps it's a problem rooted in the iPhone app process itself and not systemic to the whole company, as you imply. I would need more examples of Apple's abusive policies to understand your statement, for now though I'm not going to write off Apple as horrible corporation because some app developers cry foul (to which, according to the blogger's own admission, Apple attempts to promptly respond to and rectify).

Re: Apple’s WWDC-Closing ‘Fuck You’ to iPhone Developers

#28

Post by andrewljohnson »

sachinag wrote: post #2

The iPhone is a terrible platform for the vast, vast majority of developers. The process of getting on board, promotion, and success is a total black hole. First movers such as ngmoco and Tapulous have done well; people with better apps - for free - have failed. Maaaaaaaybe 3.0 makes it easier for niche plays to work; certainly, as far as I can tell, add-on payments aren't supported in Palm's marketplace. I do think…

I always respond this way, and I always get scorned here. But, the iPhone platform has worked for us. Updates have been a bit slow, but we feel like we have been rewarded for our work.

Some things are tricky and unintuitive, but that's the way it is in any market. Selling a product just isn't easy. You are always fighting against smart people, and there are unknowns.

I feel like people shouldn't get into the App Store market thinking that they will make a million dollars their first app. Only a few people can succeed like that at any time. But, if you jump through Apple's hoops, listen to your customers, and try and serve a real need, you can make a living on the iPhone.

People expect launching an iPhone app to be like launching a website, which you can do in a single day. They expect to be able to push whatever code they want, and push releases whenever they want.

Well, the App Store isn't like that. And while my website is fun and cool, it doesn't make much money. My iPhone app does.

Re: Apple’s WWDC-Closing ‘Fuck You’ to iPhone Developers

#29

Post by ankhmoop »

jsz0 wrote: post #11
sachinag wrote: post #2

The iPhone is a terrible platform for the vast, vast majority of developers. The process of getting on board, promotion, and success is a total black hole. First movers such as ngmoco and Tapulous have done well; people with better apps - for free - have failed. Maaaaaaaybe 3.0 makes it easier for niche plays to work; certainly, as far as I can tell, add-on payments aren't supported in Palm's marketplace. I do think…

Or perhaps people really just don't care that much? You'd think if it was so terrible people would not develop for it. The fact it continues to grow and arguably flourish is a pretty good indication there's more good than bad.

It's an indication of the motivational factor of the promise of money. Every gold rush "success story" sends N more enterprising individuals chasing after the big payout.

I've met our payroll for months on iPhone contract work and licensing, but not one of our clients or customers has made back their initial investment. I hear the same from other iPhone developers.

Moreover, we've found Apple to be capricious in their regular and seemingly inescapable rejections, absolutely impossible to contact directly for any reason, and in the worst cases, only responsive to bad press.

Personally, I wouldn't write another in-house iPhone application for love or money, but I'm happy to capitalize on the gold rush while I focus on other platforms.

Re: Apple’s WWDC-Closing ‘Fuck You’ to iPhone Developers

#30

Post by paulhart »

GHFigs wrote: post #22
sachinag wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://daringfireball.net/2009/05/diary_of_an_app_store_revi... This wouldn't have gotten the love it did if it didn't ring all-too-true to all-too-many people.

Ringing true doesn't make it true. I’ve also learned that many of the problems aren’t intentional: many parts of Apple’s internal infrastructure are overloaded or extremely outdated, and they’re scrambling to keep up with their growth, often ineffectively. One major surprise was when an Apple employee told me that the App Store reviewers are not outsourced: they’re all direct, full-time Apple employees. Many of them…

My understanding, from a contact within Apple, is that the reviewers are indeed Apple FTEs. It wasn't clear if they were somewhere on the main campus or in one of the satellite buildings, but I was led to believe they are in Cupertino.

Certainly some of the stats I was able to get from testers (thanks PinchMedia) suggest the testers have access to the AT&T network in the US. I could probably find IP addresses from Apple's /8 if people wanted to try to validate further.

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