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Dear Startups: stop asking me math puzzles to figure out if I can code

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Re: Dear Startups: stop asking me math puzzles to figure out if I can code

#131

Post by tommorris »

sillysaurus2 wrote: post #127
tommorris wrote: post #120

Here's the test I've used in the past: Before the interview, I ask them to write some code to access an HTTP endpoint that contains exchange rate data (USD, EUR, GBP, JPY etc.) in XML and to parse and load said data into a relational database. Then to build a very simple HTML form based front-end that lets you input a currency and convert it into another currency. I ask them to send me either a link to a repository (…

despite Hacker News/Paul Graham dogma to the contrary, "smartness" isn't the only thing that matters in programmers. It's actually fairly low down the list. [...] I interviewed a guy who was intellectually very smart and understood a lot about CS theory. I asked him why the PHP code he sent me didn't have any comments. "I don't believe in comments because they slow the PHP interpreter down." Sorry, he can be smarter…

So, smart includes some kind of experience-derived common sense that isn't measured well by IQ tests...? Perhaps someone should tell the people who want to use IQ tests to measure the quality of programmers...

Re: Dear Startups: stop asking me math puzzles to figure out if I can code

#132

Post by walshemj »

michaelpinto wrote: post #26

After reading this I have a dumb question: The person behind the post is a CS major but only played a little bit with the C programming language in college — is this pretty common these days?

CS is about the theory and not the practice plenty of mech engineers probably woudl not be able to use a lathe that well.

Re: Dear Startups: stop asking me math puzzles to figure out if I can code

#133

Post by wslh »

tommorris wrote: post #120

Here's the test I've used in the past: Before the interview, I ask them to write some code to access an HTTP endpoint that contains exchange rate data (USD, EUR, GBP, JPY etc.) in XML and to parse and load said data into a relational database. Then to build a very simple HTML form based front-end that lets you input a currency and convert it into another currency. I ask them to send me either a link to a repository (…

"smartness" isn't the only thing that matters in programmers.

Smartness is overrated but experience is critical for speeding up work. I can implement a whole site in Django but without good experience I will be slow (even being good at Python)

Nowadays, I think we need to find new ways to evaluate candidates productivity. For example, just following a Q&A method (stackoverflow) I can be faster than other developers.

Re: Dear Startups: stop asking me math puzzles to figure out if I can code

#135

Post by reginaldjcooper »

tommorris wrote: post #120

Here's the test I've used in the past: Before the interview, I ask them to write some code to access an HTTP endpoint that contains exchange rate data (USD, EUR, GBP, JPY etc.) in XML and to parse and load said data into a relational database. Then to build a very simple HTML form based front-end that lets you input a currency and convert it into another currency. I ask them to send me either a link to a repository (…

Sounds like a good interview; you're giving them a chance to have a go at something realistic using their typical toolset instead of a whiteboard.

I don't understand your point about dogma. I think HN assumes rationality as implied by smartness. Nobody wants to hire a poor coder/communicator to write code, CS degree or no. I bet most readers would find your process to be pretty good and have similar processes of their own.

Re: Dear Startups: stop asking me math puzzles to figure out if I can code

#136

Post by progx »

progx wrote: post #66

Because they don't know you, you don't have a well known name, they don't know what you can and if it is true. E.g. if somebody hire John Carmack (ID Software), nobody will let him do some math test or ask him trivial programming questions. But you are not John Carmack ;-) It is like in every other job: if you are not a rockstar you are nobody.

I know: the truth hurts.

Re: Dear Startups: stop asking me math puzzles to figure out if I can code

#137

Post by mathattack »

tommorris wrote: post #120

Here's the test I've used in the past: Before the interview, I ask them to write some code to access an HTTP endpoint that contains exchange rate data (USD, EUR, GBP, JPY etc.) in XML and to parse and load said data into a relational database. Then to build a very simple HTML form based front-end that lets you input a currency and convert it into another currency. I ask them to send me either a link to a repository (…

What I like about your method is it also allows you to catch folks who fudge the work product.

Re: Dear Startups: stop asking me math puzzles to figure out if I can code

#138

Post by tbassetto »

nappy-doo wrote: post #77
tbassetto wrote: post #32

Our current hiring process at my startup: - After a first non-technical call, we ask the candidate to create a very small project based on our SDK. We send him the documentation and a very small sample. He can almost use every tools he wants to create that small project and, of course, we do not set any deadlines. It allows us to see how the candidate architecture his applications and it gives us a project to discuss…

I have experienced "interviews" like this from the other end. I told YC funded founders I'm not interested in their job if this is how they interview. In my opinion, it shows inability to make a decision. I am an excellent developer, with years of experience in the industry. I know lots of technologies, and already have a great job. There is no reason for me to spend personal time writing your projects, when I would…

I forgot to precise that if the candidate has an (significant) open source project we use it instead of sending the assignment.

I hope no company will make their decision just because a candidate says that he is an excellent developer ;)

Re: Dear Startups: stop asking me math puzzles to figure out if I can code

#139

Post by betterunix »

bolder88 wrote: post #121
dagw wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money buys access to tutors and training materials. It buys access to free time for practicing for your SAT. It also buys opportunity to repeatedly retake the SAT until you get a grade you like.

OR , those people are wealthy because they have a high IQ, and are likely to give birth to children with a high IQ. I would bet that's far more likely.

Except that being poor taxes intelligence:

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-08-29/national/41584...

So in fact, it is more likely that people from wealthy backgrounds are able to better utilize their intelligence, and thus retain their wealth and status, whereas people from poor backgrounds are at a disadvantage when it comes to escaping their position in life.

Re: Dear Startups: stop asking me math puzzles to figure out if I can code

#140

Post by eddiedunn »

tommorris wrote: post #120

Here's the test I've used in the past: Before the interview, I ask them to write some code to access an HTTP endpoint that contains exchange rate data (USD, EUR, GBP, JPY etc.) in XML and to parse and load said data into a relational database. Then to build a very simple HTML form based front-end that lets you input a currency and convert it into another currency. I ask them to send me either a link to a repository (…

Hey, that seems like an awesome hiring process.

Personally, I think that if you want a brilliant mathematician/problem solver, then that's what you should put in the job listing. Then asking the kind of questions exemplified in the article is likely merited. On the other hand, if you want a good programmer you should mainly look at the quality of the code they produce.

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