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Ask HN: Should I go to Sweden for work?

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21–30 of 73 posts

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to Sweden for work?

#21
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the guy in charge for money said was something around $4-$5k per month before taxes which seems quite low to me.

If you are currently making $7-$10k on average, why would you relocate to an foreign country and make less on a monthly base? Also seems like you are married with 2 children. Relocating your family will be more expensive than your first thought because most probably you will have to cover their visa expenses. You all need to get familiar with "aliens". If I were you I would offer remote service to that company but wo…

There might be benefits other than the wage that make up for it.

I am not sure about Russian healthcare and so forth but free healthcare, education, childcare (cheap at least) and such might make up for it.

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to Sweden for work?

#22
post #8
post #5

I can tell you a little about Sweden's culture, as I've just moved to Sweden as part of a study abroad program at my university in the USA. Sweden is amazing; it's very clean, and there is very little crime here. The average standard of living here is very high, and as a result, Sweden is crazy expensive. Also, Swedes can be kind of cold. Someone in one of my classes told me that it is uncommon for Swedes to make new…

There was a mass shooting by a gang in one of the Ghettos yesterday. Before that a couple of clicks east of there, a guy got stabbed in a tunnel. Before that a lady who passed out outside her door (forgot her keys, was drunk) got dragged into her apartment and raped by her neighbours (who ended up bragging about it to other neighbours) All in a Sunday. There's more Crime in Sweden than you think.

Let's not exaggerate the crime in Sweden. The best measure for crime is the homicide rate (since death is harder to fake than for example theft, and since it rarely goes unreported as for example rape). The homicide rate for Sweden is 1/10 of that of Russia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentiona...

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to Sweden for work?

#23
post #9

Be ready to pay up for a place to stay in Stockholm, I'm native and I gotta stay in queue in order to get to rent. There is no free market for apartments - at least not for rentals. You can take your chance at the Swedish equivalent of Craigs List or get to know someone. I've given up and decided to buy. Taxes aren't as high as people complain about, unless you're a freelancer. Small businesses get screwed royally an…

I think your nativity makes you miss a few problems simply because they never cross your path. For example:

> Language skills... nothing to say here. Every Swede can speak and write English. You won't have problems here.

This is true insofar as that I've been studying Interaction Design in Sweden for one and a half years now (one half year to go) and I have not needed to learn Swedish. However, I've been informed that to get employed in Sweden it's quite vital that you know Swedish. There's plenty of jobs where you don't even really need to know Swedish, but they demand it anyway to give the local people a bigger chance.

To give an example: I know of other students who couldn't get a job delivering newspapers because they didn't speak Swedish because, and I quote "suppose a stranger on the street asks you for directions, how are you going to help them?" which is obviousy part of the job description of newspaper delivery boy.

Can't say how that translates for jobs like UX, although I hear similar stuff from graduates: knowing Swedish is almost necessary if you want to get employed.

I'm quite surprised about your fears at night - I live in Malmö (which has a reputation) and have never felt threatened or in danger at all.

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to Sweden for work?

#24

Taxes are alot higher than in Russia. You'll probably end up paying 50-60% in total taxes (income + sales + various other hidden taxes on consumer goods etc.). So thats something to consider.

If you are a freelancer, as an employee it's around 30%.

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to Sweden for work?

#25
post #2

Hello, I'm not from Sweden but if you could post an approximation of the salary they offered maybe someone who lives there might better answer how you will manage. Good luck!

What the guy in charge for money said was something around $4-$5k per month before taxes which seems quite low to me.

That sounds about average for Stockholm I believe.

The salary will obviously be lower than freelancing rates since there are less taxes and costs to consider. You will have to make a spreadsheet or something to see what would end up being most profitable.

Housing is rather expensive in Stockholm at the moment, and rentals are hard to come by unless you want to pay ~10k SEK for a small one bedroom flat.

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to Sweden for work?

#26
I consulted with a startup in Stockholm Sweden for 2.5 months at the start of the year. It was an amazing experience, and needless to say I had an absolute blast. Made many great friends, a few of which have come to SF to visit me since. It is cold Dec-Feb, but around March starts getting nice, and Swedes come out and play.

General Rules:

- Don't talk to people on the subway. Swedes like their public transportation silent. :)

- Swedes like coffee.

- It is expensive as hell to eat out (daily), and go to bars often. I did it anyway.

- Swedes are very punctual and schedule oriented. They generally work 9-5pm, even in startups.

- Don't wait until Saturday to stock up on adult beverages, the lines at the Systembolaget can get insane.

- Learn to ice skate (or play Hockey), fun activity during the winter.

- Swedish pizza is amazing. Great thin crust.

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to Sweden for work?

#27
post #14

A couple of things: You have to be absolutely certain that they will supply living and work permit for both you and your family. Immigration laws are very strict in Scandinavia, so you'd obviously want to be certain there won't be any nasty surprises with getting your wife and children here. Living costs in Moscow and Stockholm is not that far from each other. A full-time position as a front-end developer usually won…

>Front-end contracting is typically full-time contracts on-location for between 6 and 12 months. It typically pays 100+ USD an hour, meaning a monthly income of 16K USD or so given a standard 40 hour workweek.

A lot of those 16K will go away in taxes and social costs though. I am not sure what most freelancers use for estimates but somewhere between 50-75% should probably be deducted before getting a comparable number to a salary.

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to Sweden for work?

#28
post #22
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a mass shooting by a gang in one of the Ghettos yesterday. Before that a couple of clicks east of there, a guy got stabbed in a tunnel. Before that a lady who passed out outside her door (forgot her keys, was drunk) got dragged into her apartment and raped by her neighbours (who ended up bragging about it to other neighbours) All in a Sunday. There's more Crime in Sweden than you think.

Let's not exaggerate the crime in Sweden. The best measure for crime is the homicide rate (since death is harder to fake than for example theft, and since it rarely goes unreported as for example rape). The homicide rate for Sweden is 1/10 of that of Russia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentiona...

You were slightly ahead of me :)

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to Sweden for work?

#29
I did my masters degree in Stockholm and one thing I think is very important to know is that it is very difficult to find a job without speaking proper Swedish, so if you go to Sweden and at some point decide to change jobs, it might be difficult if you didn't learn Swedish yet. I was in a CS masters program with about 30 other international students and none of us even got a IT related side job (not even at the international companies like IBM, ...) although Kista as part of Stockholm likes to be called "the IT capital of europe ...".

Besides that, I really wouldn't worry about crime etc. Swedes definitely have a different perception to crime and danger in general compared to the rest of the world I'd say, simply because Sweden is so peaceful.

I lived in Husby, which is considered "ghetto" by Swedes and the riots this year happened pretty much in front of my door. I didn't even notice anything and was never scared to walk home at night, but every Swede I talked to reacted pretty shocked when I told them where I lived. So I really wouldn't worry about that, especially if you got along in Moscow.

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to Sweden for work?

#30
I moved to Stockholm from the US earlier this year. The salary is supposedly good for Stockholm, but about 20-30% lower than offers I had in the US. I took it because I particularly loved the idea of living in Sweden, and I was not disappointed.

Comparing the cost of living is difficult. I don't know anything about the lifestyle in Moscow, but the US is so extremely different from Sweden that it turns out I did all of my comparisons wrong... I thought my expendable income would go down by moving here, but it actually went up. This is not because Stockholm is cheaper (it's much, much more expensive), but because I imitate the Swedish lifestyle, and the Swedish lifestyle is much cheaper than the American lifestyle :)

Swedish salaries aren't going to make you wealthy, they are just going to make you comfortable. And if you live your whole life here and retire here, the government programs will keep you comfortable through your retirement. It's a good system to live in long-term, but it's not the most competitive for short-term positions.

Most of my friends here are non-Swedish europeans, and I really only see two stances: either they moved here because they needed a job and they can't wait to move home, or they moved here because they wanted to live in Sweden and they love it. Marriage complicates it even more... some love it, but their spouses desperately want to move home. (good news: young children seem to transition very well)

If you or your wife is particularly against moving to Sweden, drop it immediately. You'll probably never get over that. But if it sounds like a fun adventure, then it probably is! If the first thing you want to do here is find some surströmming and köttbullar, you'll have a good time... if the first thing you want to do is find other Russian expats and a Russian food market, it's going to be a long winter.

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