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Ask HN: Should I go to Sweden for work?

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Re: Ask HN: Should I go to Sweden for work?

#11

Post by sandstrom »

I'm sure there are lots of questions and it's hard to address all of them. Some spontaneous thoughts:

- Stockholm is really expensive, housing as well as other living expenses[1]

- Salaries are okay, but probably not as high as in some other places

- Climate is awesome in the summer, and much less so during the winter.

There are some upsides too:

- Lots of tech companies, so switching jobs shouldn't be too difficult should you want to.

- Some would say it's one of the better cities in the world to live in and grow up. As The Economist puts it "If you had to be reborn anywhere in the world as a person with average talents and income, you would want to be a Viking." This is great for your children.[2]

- People are good at english, so getting setup should be easy. Low level of bureaucracy as well. I'd still advice that you learn Swedish though.

Many other aspects of course, the actual company you are considering is probably the most important. However, that's hard to speak to in general terms.

(I'm not really neutral, since I'm Swedish)

[1] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/picturegalleries/9554951/T...

[2] http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21571136-politicians-b...

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to Sweden for work?

#13

Post by Sharlin »

fvrghl wrote: post #5

I can tell you a little about Sweden's culture, as I've just moved to Sweden as part of a study abroad program at my university in the USA. Sweden is amazing; it's very clean, and there is very little crime here. The average standard of living here is very high, and as a result, Sweden is crazy expensive. Also, Swedes can be kind of cold. Someone in one of my classes told me that it is uncommon for Swedes to make new…

Speaking as a Finn, it's a cultural aspect common to all Nordic countries that there's much less of the sort of superficial friendliness to strangers or acquaintances than what is normative in the US. But when you do make friends with one of us Northerners, it's often a "till death do us part" sort of affair.

Oh, and for better or worse, alcohol is the social lubricant and a primary way of making friends in the Northern Europe even moreso than in most other places.

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to Sweden for work?

#14

Post by MortenK »

A couple of things:

You have to be absolutely certain that they will supply living and work permit for both you and your family. Immigration laws are very strict in Scandinavia, so you'd obviously want to be certain there won't be any nasty surprises with getting your wife and children here.

Living costs in Moscow and Stockholm is not that far from each other.

A full-time position as a front-end developer usually won't pay through the roof. However a good front-ender never needs to look far for a new job.

Career-wise where you'd really be able to take a leap is after a year or two as a frontend dev at this Stockholm company. By then you have working permit sorted out, a Swedish referral and maybe a little knowledge of the language.

When you have these things you can break into front-end contracting for customers in Sweden or other countries in Scandinavia (Oslo, Norway is particularly booming at the moment).

Front-end contracting is typically full-time contracts on-location for between 6 and 12 months. It typically pays 100+ USD an hour, meaning a monthly income of 16K USD or so given a standard 40 hour workweek. If you have the skills (and it sounds like you do), the contracts are pretty easy to get by using agencies who are always looking for new development talent.

It's very hard to jump directly into contracting in Sweden from Russia, particularly due to the whole work-visa problem. But once you are inside, it's a very viable opportunity.

If your wife enjoys learning languages, there is free Swedish language education (she can even apply for a "learning bonus" of around 1000 USD pr 6 weeks or so). Once you are in, there's also (almost) free health care and such.

Stockholm is a lovely city, and it's only a 2,5 hour flight from Moscow, priced typically at around 400-500 USD round-trip.

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to Sweden for work?

#16

Post by fsniper »

cosmorocket wrote: post #4
frigg wrote: post #2

Hello, I'm not from Sweden but if you could post an approximation of the salary they offered maybe someone who lives there might better answer how you will manage. Good luck!

What the guy in charge for money said was something around $4-$5k per month before taxes which seems quite low to me.

If you are currently making $7-$10k on average, why would you relocate to an foreign country and make less on a monthly base? Also seems like you are married with 2 children. Relocating your family will be more expensive than your first thought because most probably you will have to cover their visa expenses. You all need to get familiar with "aliens".

If I were you I would offer remote service to that company but would not relocate there. If they accept it's a win win. Other wise you can continue freelance.

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to Sweden for work?

#17

Post by NonEUCitizen »

MortenK wrote: post #14

A couple of things: You have to be absolutely certain that they will supply living and work permit for both you and your family. Immigration laws are very strict in Scandinavia, so you'd obviously want to be certain there won't be any nasty surprises with getting your wife and children here. Living costs in Moscow and Stockholm is not that far from each other. A full-time position as a front-end developer usually won…

Sweden has implemented the Blue Card scheme, so work permits should now be simpler for highly skilled migrants:

http://www.workpermit.com/news/2013-08-23/sweden-joins-eu-bl...

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to Sweden for work?

#18

Post by nerfhammer »

Sharlin wrote: post #13
fvrghl wrote: post #5

I can tell you a little about Sweden's culture, as I've just moved to Sweden as part of a study abroad program at my university in the USA. Sweden is amazing; it's very clean, and there is very little crime here. The average standard of living here is very high, and as a result, Sweden is crazy expensive. Also, Swedes can be kind of cold. Someone in one of my classes told me that it is uncommon for Swedes to make new…

Speaking as a Finn, it's a cultural aspect common to all Nordic countries that there's much less of the sort of superficial friendliness to strangers or acquaintances than what is normative in the US. But when you do make friends with one of us Northerners, it's often a "till death do us part" sort of affair. Oh, and for better or worse, alcohol is the social lubricant and a primary way of making friends in the North…

friendliness scale

more friendly -> less friendly

Denmark -> Norway -> Sweden -> Finland

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to Sweden for work?

#19

Post by alexmic »

Hey!

I recently moved to Stockholm from London to join a startup as a software engineer. Here's my experience so far:

Stockholm is a lovely city. Small enough to not be too hectic, but big enough to offer a broad variety of things to do. On average, I would say it's expensive – more than London at least – but I think I'm still living like a tourist instead of a local. You're going to have to hunt for the good and cheap places. On the other hand, rent is cheaper. The salaries are lower compared to London and what you've been earning as a freelancer in Moscow but I believe 1000EUR/month spending money for a single person should be enough for a good standard of living.

The startup scene is really picking up. There's a number of excellent startups and an attitude towards substance over hype. There are also quite a lot of events happening in the tech and startup scene and most of them are on meetup.com.

I'm 26, single, no kids, so my situation is different than yours. When it came to make a decision, salary was not my top priority. The company and people were pretty cool so I just went with it. I was getting a bit bored in London anyway, so I wanted a new experience.

Whether it will be a move forward or not it's completely up to you, but I think Stockholm has the potential and infrastructure to help you progress individually and career-wise.

Re: Ask HN: Should I go to Sweden for work?

#20

Post by pingvingryta »

seivan wrote: post #8
fvrghl wrote: post #5

I can tell you a little about Sweden's culture, as I've just moved to Sweden as part of a study abroad program at my university in the USA. Sweden is amazing; it's very clean, and there is very little crime here. The average standard of living here is very high, and as a result, Sweden is crazy expensive. Also, Swedes can be kind of cold. Someone in one of my classes told me that it is uncommon for Swedes to make new…

There was a mass shooting by a gang in one of the Ghettos yesterday. Before that a couple of clicks east of there, a guy got stabbed in a tunnel. Before that a lady who passed out outside her door (forgot her keys, was drunk) got dragged into her apartment and raped by her neighbours (who ended up bragging about it to other neighbours) All in a Sunday. There's more Crime in Sweden than you think.

Of course there are crimes, but statistically it might be lower than in other places. For example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentiona...
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