I actually like asking math questions on interviews. It shows how people approach a problem. Asking code questions in an arbitrary interview setting shows just about nothing - no access to a reference doc, somebody peering over your shoulder. Heck, I couldn't code my way out of a wet paperback in that setting. Certainly, asking only math questions is stupid as well, people should know at least a little about the stuf…
Asking math questions might exclude some good candidates. I know more than a couple very productive programmers that did not go through a formal CS education. Asking math questions to those candidates could even scare them for no reason. I hired people who had no idea about Lagrange Multipliers but were able to ship code in various languages and even learn new paradigms when necessary. There are not only smart people…
Dear Startups: stop asking me math puzzles to figure out if I can code
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Re: Dear Startups: stop asking me math puzzles to figure out if I can code
#72I just don't have the experience or tools or interest for them.
And yet, somehow, in 20 years of business geekery I've never come across a problem I can't solve.
Maybe when writing Tetris for J2ME I would have saved myself 10 minutes googling if I'd had the experience to realise that right angle based matrix translations don't require fp maths and maybe when writing financial indicators, I'd have saved myself half a day if I hadn't had to look up integrals but this sort of stuff is definitely in the minority as far as my experience goes.
Re: Dear Startups: stop asking me math puzzles to figure out if I can code
#73I agree. But for a different reason: I'm shit at maths puzzles. I just don't have the experience or tools or interest for them. And yet, somehow, in 20 years of business geekery I've never come across a problem I can't solve. Maybe when writing Tetris for J2ME I would have saved myself 10 minutes googling if I'd had the experience to realise that right angle based matrix translations don't require fp maths and maybe…
Re: Dear Startups: stop asking me math puzzles to figure out if I can code
#74One example I use is getting the candidate to write crud, list, and search controller actions for a simple category data structure. Given a basic category data model (e.g. Name, Parent), the candidate starts with the crud actions.
Crud actions aren't meant to be difficult to solve and serve as a basic screener to verify the candidate has working knowledge of the basics. The only edge case I look for the candidate to ask about is if orphaning child nodes is allowed (I.e updating parent node, deleting a node with children)
List action(s) start getting more interesting since recursion comes into play. A basic implementation of an action that can load the tree given an arbitrary category as a starting point is expected. If the candidate has some prior experience, a discussion of what performance concerns they may have with loading the category tree is a follow up question. The tree loading algorithm is then expected to be revised to handle an optional max depth parameter. An edge case I look to be considered is how to signify in the action response that a category has one or more child nodes that weren't loaded due to a depth restriction.
The search action implementation has a degree of difficulty scaled to the candidates experience level. All candidates have to write an action that returns a collection of categories matching a search string. Those with previous experience are asked about a paging solution. Senior level candidates are asked to return matching categories in a format that indicates all ancestors ( for instance: "Category 1 -> Category 1.1 -> Category 1.1.1" result for search string "1.1.1")
For an added degree of difficulty, candidates can be asked to recommend data model tweaks and algorithms supporting tree versioning requirements necessary to allow for loading the category tree's state at a given point in time.
The candidate's performance to this exercise seems to give some insight into their level of experience and ability to implement algorithms from a common real world example without having to ask much trivia or logic problems.
Re: Dear Startups: stop asking me math puzzles to figure out if I can code
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
What I mean is that people who enjoy programming probably tend to be smart. I haven't done any statistical surveys, but the motivational feedback loop for learning programming rewards intelligence.
I doubt that. There's a lot of people going into programming because they think a) IT is akin to playing computer games all day. b) It's easy work in a climatized office with solid pay c) The jobs are relatively secure and abundant. I've seen many people go into IT that would much better have been employed elsewhere, so I think that we, as programmers are not more intelligent on average than the rest of the populatio…
Re: Dear Startups: stop asking me math puzzles to figure out if I can code
#76Re: Dear Startups: stop asking me math puzzles to figure out if I can code
#77Our current hiring process at my startup: - After a first non-technical call, we ask the candidate to create a very small project based on our SDK. We send him the documentation and a very small sample. He can almost use every tools he wants to create that small project and, of course, we do not set any deadlines. It allows us to see how the candidate architecture his applications and it gives us a project to discuss…
I am an excellent developer, with years of experience in the industry. I know lots of technologies, and already have a great job. There is no reason for me to spend personal time writing your projects, when I would be rewarded by spending personal time on my employer's projects.
"Interviews" like this will only grab candidates with nothing better to do than to fulltime interview with your company. In my opinion, the best people already have jobs, and you're excluding them from the process.
Re: Dear Startups: stop asking me math puzzles to figure out if I can code
#78This is like solving your submarine problem. Jeese.
Re: Dear Startups: stop asking me math puzzles to figure out if I can code
#79Yet, I have never had the balls to pursue it professionally. I build stuff and usually never launch it. I have learned several times over that marketing is not my strong suit.
That said, I'd actually like to work for a startup. Hit me up if anyone wants to talk.
Re: Dear Startups: stop asking me math puzzles to figure out if I can code
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
I doubt that. There's a lot of people going into programming because they think a) IT is akin to playing computer games all day. b) It's easy work in a climatized office with solid pay c) The jobs are relatively secure and abundant. I've seen many people go into IT that would much better have been employed elsewhere, so I think that we, as programmers are not more intelligent on average than the rest of the populatio…
looks like the one part you said you might agree with in your very last sentence is 100% of the group that they were talking about: people who enjoy programming.