I wonder why there's no wine, or mixed drinks on a company's perks list. Time to diversify!
Beer
121–130 of 143 posts
Re: Beer
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I can't imagine this creating a problem. Are you serious? Talk to just about any attorney, and it won't take him or her more than a minute to rattle off a laundry list of scenarios that could literally turn your business upside down in an instant. Your question, "Is the subtext here about hostile frat culture, or, worse, about harassment?" suggests that you have some idea of what can go wrong but frankly, a hostile…
If what you said is true, why do many extremely large corporations serve beer at company events, and sometimes even stock it in the office? Are their attorneys incompetent?
My SO is an attorney so I'll respond by relaying a couple of things I hear first-hand on a regular basis:
1. Many clients ignore the advice they're given.
2. Big companies spend lots of money settling lawsuits that could have been completely avoided.
A six or seven-figure lawsuit, which may require tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars to defend, is an inconvenience at a billion dollar company. It can be the end of a startup or small business.
Re: Beer
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are you implying your interns are the hardest workers (aside from those who grab 1 or 2 beers) or are you implying that interns grab 1 or 2 beers, just like your hardest workers?
The latter. We actively discourage interns from doing overtime.
So now you are implying "working hard" means working more hours? sheesh...
Re: Beer
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is a straw man argument, and the type that can only appeal to a company wanting to make poor, ill-informed risk management decisions. No business can eliminate all risk, but some risks are unnecessary and easily eliminated. Serving alcohol to employees creates a significant amount of potential legal liability (it could literally bankrupt your company) but it is hard to reasonably and objectively argue that the p…
Assuming you are not operating dangerous machinery are you likely to be sued for simply allowing alcohol to be consumed? I can see that you might be held liable for some other problem of which alcohol might be a contributing factor but simply eliminating alcohol may well not solve that problem anyway. The potential benefits of allowing responsible alcohol consumption might be more than you think, if it helps provide…
> Assuming you are not operating dangerous machinery are you likely to be sued for simply allowing alcohol to be consumed?
Providing alcohol to your employees or permitting them to consume alcohol on the job or at a company-sponsored event creates a whole host of potential liabilities. Here are a couple of real-world examples:
http://www.riskandinsurance.com/story.jsp?storyId=533353814
http://www.mmdnewswire.com/faapuna-mac-manu-mahoney-law-grou...
If you believe that alcohol is a good way to create a "relaxed atmosphere" let me assure you: there's nothing relaxing about watching your insurance premiums skyrocket, spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on attorneys, paying millions of dollars in damages and/or living with the fact that you were involved in an incident during which someone was seriously hurt or lost his or her life.
Re: Beer
#125Is the subtext here about hostile frat culture, or, worse, about harassment? That's what I think it is. Like a lot of things, I think beer is fine if you're adult about it. We've got quite a lot of beer in our Chicago office (we haul crates from Russian River and Three Floyds and Jolly Pumpkin). But nobody drinks while they work, and nobody drinks whole bottles; we open a bottle and a bunch of people taste. If it's F…
Perhaps the "beer" subtext is just more about being exclusive (beer nerds welcome here) versus inclusive. What if instead the same event was going out to a bar, where you can order a whiskey, cosmopolitan or soda?
I think it fits into the greater "culture" of a workplace, and is at most a symptom of the problem and not the answer. If a CTO thinks his ads are appearing "sexist," the problem must go deeper than the keg in the break room (which is just the most obvious sign of immaturity.)
Re: Beer
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
Assuming you are not operating dangerous machinery are you likely to be sued for simply allowing alcohol to be consumed? I can see that you might be held liable for some other problem of which alcohol might be a contributing factor but simply eliminating alcohol may well not solve that problem anyway. The potential benefits of allowing responsible alcohol consumption might be more than you think, if it helps provide…
> Assuming you are not operating dangerous machinery are you likely to be sued for simply allowing alcohol to be consumed? Providing alcohol to your employees or permitting them to consume alcohol on the job or at a company-sponsored event creates a whole host of potential liabilities. Here are a couple of real-world examples: http://www.riskandinsurance.com/story.jsp?storyId=533353814 http://www.mmdnewswire.com/faap…
For every event like this there are thousands where people have a good time. Just don't let your employees drink-drive.
Re: Beer
#127Everybody's talking about it as though everyone goes on a raging bender at work every evening. It's as though offices offered free cake and you're all imagining meeting rooms full of rotund programmers stuffing half a bundt down their gullet. If beer in an office is causing issues it's because someone doesn't know their limits, and that is an entirely individualized and likely very marginalized issue. The author's im…
I think her point is not "everyone goes on a raging bender" her point is more...if one person, one time, goes on a raging bender... was the tradeoff worth it. The answer of course is ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! Culture decisions should be in the best interests of everyone in the office. If you have one recovering alcoholic in the office, or one person who might act irresponsibly... This little harmless perk becomes a massive l…
If that's the point, then it is moot. If one person, one time, goes on a raging bender, then they probably would have done so regardless. It's an individual and rare issue which should be judged independently of the whole.
We're not children, we're adults. Generally people know how to drink responsibly, if they choose to drink at all, and while I'm aware that there are a very large number of people who do not they are still very much a minority, else there would be pandemonium in the streets every time a liquor store comes to town.
As others here have already pointed out, if you go to a lawyer and ask for an enumerated list of everything in your office that could become a "massive liability" then you'll probably decide to just shutter the doors before the list is even half completed.
Stop applying unfounded "what if" morals to a perfectly legal and benign office perk. Trying to act in the "best interests of everyone" will ultimately serve no one, your office will end up being another cookie cutter cubicle farm that the legal department has determined is the statistically least likely (but not entirely!) to cause problems and all your talent will eventually get tired and move on to greener pastures.
Re: Beer
#128I have worked at my current job for 3 months. I've seen alcohol served 2-3 times during town hall style meetings. And yes, some people get drunk. I do not work at a tech company but rather at a cosmetics company, at least half of the employees are women.
I would not be surprised if there were a few lushes at the office who keep a bottle in their desks. Our culture is pretty laid back. But I imagine it would tighten up pretty quickly should an incident occur.
I wouldn't rule out serving alcohol at the office, but make sure everybody's really cool with each other first. If you had an instinctive reaction like "oh of course everyone's cool!", then they're not and you're about to find out what it's like to be Michael Scott.
Re: Beer
#129s/beer/caffeinated drinks/g
Re: Beer
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Like a lot of things, I think beer is fine if you're adult about it. There are a very long list of things that are typically prohibited at work that would be fine "if you're an adult about it." There's a crossover point at which the population of workers becomes large enough that it is difficult or impossible to impose the "be an adult" requirement. The arbiters of responsibility cannot be within reach of all behav…
I think people need to say "this is fine for one organization, but not for another". Or one person and not another. One houseplant and not another. American society is overly fond of one size fits all rules - that on one hand end up with adults being treated like children, and the dumbing down of culture and a restricting oeveryone's rights to protect the few from bad decisions - and on the other hand end up with ove…
I like that notion. I've always felt unfair using different determinations for different groups, but the way you've expressed it is very much like how we handle this kind of thing in our organization. We like to say, "it's not a problem until it becomes a problem." It provides a nice incentive as well. Don't like verbose, restrictive policies? Then everyone do their best not to be an asshole and we won't have to use them.