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Re: Beer

#81

Post by bambax »

tptacek wrote: post #9

Is the subtext here about hostile frat culture, or, worse, about harassment? That's what I think it is. Like a lot of things, I think beer is fine if you're adult about it. We've got quite a lot of beer in our Chicago office (we haul crates from Russian River and Three Floyds and Jolly Pumpkin). But nobody drinks while they work, and nobody drinks whole bottles; we open a bottle and a bunch of people taste. If it's F…

> Like a lot of things, I think porn is fine if you're adult about it. We've got quite a lot of porn in our Chicago office...

> Like a lot of things, I think guns are fine if you're adult about it. We've got quite a lot of guns in our Chicago office...

(I'm sorry, did I misquote you?) Just because some things are fine if you're adult about it, doesn't make them appropriate at the office.

Why would you have alcohol in an office?

> But nobody drinks while they work (...) so many of us are parents

So they're at the office, not working, and drinking beer. If their work is done (it has to be since you can't work after beer) why don't they go home to their family and kids?

Re: Beer

#82

Post by adwf »

mathattack wrote: post #12
tptacek wrote: post #9

Is the subtext here about hostile frat culture, or, worse, about harassment? That's what I think it is. Like a lot of things, I think beer is fine if you're adult about it. We've got quite a lot of beer in our Chicago office (we haul crates from Russian River and Three Floyds and Jolly Pumpkin). But nobody drinks while they work, and nobody drinks whole bottles; we open a bottle and a bunch of people taste. If it's F…

Perhaps there's a difference in culture between bottles versus kegs? The former suggests restraint, the latter doesn't?

Yeah that's exactly what I was thinking. Just the presence of a small bottle fridge says to me - "We're a relaxed and fun place to work. We take your mental wellbeing seriously and don't mind you unwinding a little on a sunny friday afternoon."

Whereas a keg just says "Drink up, there's plenty more".

Either way, I think that having beer in the office is less of a perk and more of a culture indicator. In one easy move you've made the company looked relaxed and friendly. You don't even have to be drinking the beer regularly, just have it available for special occasions or somesuch.

Re: Beer

#83

Post by jbooth »

tptacek wrote: post #9

Is the subtext here about hostile frat culture, or, worse, about harassment? That's what I think it is. Like a lot of things, I think beer is fine if you're adult about it. We've got quite a lot of beer in our Chicago office (we haul crates from Russian River and Three Floyds and Jolly Pumpkin). But nobody drinks while they work, and nobody drinks whole bottles; we open a bottle and a bunch of people taste. If it's F…

I think a big cultural indicator might be advertising your beer fridge on the job posting. Having beer in the fridge and being cool with people having one on a late Friday afternoon is one thing, making it one of your selling points is another.

Re: Beer

#84

Post by crazygringo »

I'm personally not a fan of beer at the office as a regular thing, just because I think it's one more amenity to get employees to spend longer hours at the office.

But that said, there was usually beer where I last worked, and in no way was it "a recipe for mixed signals, disagreements, misunderstandings."

It basically served as a way for devs to unwind at the end of the day (after 7pm) being social with each other, while they played video games or board games or watched movies on the conference room projector. Especially on Fridays.

It had nothing to do with a frat culture, I never saw drinking during the day, and I never heard of anyone getting drunk. It was no different from cheesecake in the fridge, or pizza in the fridge, or wine, or soda.

Re: Beer

#85

Post by Zikes »

bambax wrote: post #81
tptacek wrote: post #9

Is the subtext here about hostile frat culture, or, worse, about harassment? That's what I think it is. Like a lot of things, I think beer is fine if you're adult about it. We've got quite a lot of beer in our Chicago office (we haul crates from Russian River and Three Floyds and Jolly Pumpkin). But nobody drinks while they work, and nobody drinks whole bottles; we open a bottle and a bunch of people taste. If it's F…

> Like a lot of things, I think porn is fine if you're adult about it. We've got quite a lot of porn in our Chicago office... > Like a lot of things, I think guns are fine if you're adult about it. We've got quite a lot of guns in our Chicago office... (I'm sorry, did I misquote you?) Just because some things are fine if you're adult about it, doesn't make them appropriate at the office. Why would you have alcohol in…

I'm sure RedTube and Smith & Wesson would disagree with you regarding your examples.

Re: Beer

#86

Post by jdludlow »

There’s no reason to have beer. On tap. In your business.

Reasons #1 through #999: I'd like to have a beer.

Why do freedom of choice and personal responsibility never factor into these types of blog posts? This entire thing reads "I don't want beer, so you can't have beer."

I was fixing some bugs last night. And I was drinking a pint of Wall's End[1] at the same time. I felt zero effects from the alcohol (it's a 4.8% session brown ale), the bugs got fixed, and the sun rose in the east this morning.

[1] http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/30076/89553 If you're in Minneapolis / St. Paul, and you like brown ales, get some of this.

Re: Beer

#87

Post by archagon »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #6

Amongst companies that keep beer on premesis what is the culture surrounding it? If you come into work on monday morning and everyone is already onto their 3rd Carlsberg export by 12:30 then I can see why that might cause problems. OTOH companies that I've worked at that have kept beer in the fridge it has always been something that might be enjoyed with lunch on a friday or at 7PM when one has stayed a little late f…

Both of the previous companies I worked at had unlimited access to alcohol. The startup had a kegerator, while the bigger company had an empty desk filled entirely with liquor bottles on my floor. The only drinking that really happened was on Fridays. Very rarely did anyone have a drink during normal working hours, unless we were in the office late at night and it was crunch time. It was just taboo.

(Not writing this in defense of alcohol at the office. Personally, I like it. But I can see the other side as well.)

Re: Beer

#88

Post by driverdan »

bambax wrote: post #81
tptacek wrote: post #9

Is the subtext here about hostile frat culture, or, worse, about harassment? That's what I think it is. Like a lot of things, I think beer is fine if you're adult about it. We've got quite a lot of beer in our Chicago office (we haul crates from Russian River and Three Floyds and Jolly Pumpkin). But nobody drinks while they work, and nobody drinks whole bottles; we open a bottle and a bunch of people taste. If it's F…

> Like a lot of things, I think porn is fine if you're adult about it. We've got quite a lot of porn in our Chicago office... > Like a lot of things, I think guns are fine if you're adult about it. We've got quite a lot of guns in our Chicago office... (I'm sorry, did I misquote you?) Just because some things are fine if you're adult about it, doesn't make them appropriate at the office. Why would you have alcohol in…

Not sure if you're trolling...

Sex is not fine in the workplace thus porn is not fine.

What's wrong with guns at the office? So long as you are complying with all laws I don't see the problem.

What's wrong with coworkers being friends and hanging out for a bit after work on a Friday?

Re: Beer

#89

Post by mgkimsal »

nilkn wrote: post #80
mgkimsal wrote: post #46

The beer culture is very very weird to me, and something I just don't get. I don't understand why companies don't promote an ice cream culture. Have custom flavors available throughout the day, a stocked freezer, etc. Sit back and have a sundae while discussing code problems. Try new toppings/sauces now and then, etc. I don't drink beer. When I was younger, it was mostly a financial issue. As I'm older, I just don't…

I also don't like the taste of beer and have never had a glass of beer I've really enjoyed. If I'm not careful, the aftertaste can actually gag me a little bit. I've had one or two unpleasant encounters with people who truly can't accept that all beer tastes bad to me. One person went so far as to tell me that you can't dislike beer if you like bread because, you know, beer is just liquid bread. I've since learned to…

but we shouldn't. we need to be more vocal - fighting the 20-something fratboy beer drinking image of 'web developer' is something that needs to be done. I strongly suspect that perhaps outside a few square blocks of san francisco, non-beer-obsessed 30-something+ non fratboys (and girls) are actually the norm for web/software development, but we don't fit the techporn myth.

Re: Beer

#90

Post by mathattack »

shanac wrote: post #77
mathattack wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Finally, the one thing that does bother me - beer in tech companies usually means they want you to be there 24/7. Fine, ok - but you can do business elsewhere. For all you know interacting with some bartender may help you - and it isn't going to happen if your work life is also your social life, as implied by the kegs. This is very true, and includes other benefits too. Dinner is a cheap price for a few hours of deve…

I'm not sold that always being in the social context of work is healthy. And as my cofounder says "Keeping healthy is the cheapest way to get stuff done" Further, productivity drops if you work 24/7. On a personal level - time for other things (including laundry) outside of work does make me more productive because it gives me to time to think about work. The mind relaxes and you make connections you would not otherw…

I hear you - gym memberships are a great benefit because they save the employee money, and pay for themselves in better health.

Any perk that gives me time back is a good one, whether or not I invest the time in the office or elsewhere. I'd rather play with my kids than fold clothes.

Personally I find my productivity increases up to about 50 hours, and then drops slowly until about 60, when it falls off the cliff. Different people hit it at different times.

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