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Re: Beer

#61

Post by mathattack »

7Figures2Commas wrote: post #40
tptacek wrote: post #9

Is the subtext here about hostile frat culture, or, worse, about harassment? That's what I think it is. Like a lot of things, I think beer is fine if you're adult about it. We've got quite a lot of beer in our Chicago office (we haul crates from Russian River and Three Floyds and Jolly Pumpkin). But nobody drinks while they work, and nobody drinks whole bottles; we open a bottle and a bunch of people taste. If it's F…

> I can't imagine this creating a problem. Are you serious? Talk to just about any attorney, and it won't take him or her more than a minute to rattle off a laundry list of scenarios that could literally turn your business upside down in an instant. Your question, "Is the subtext here about hostile frat culture, or, worse, about harassment?" suggests that you have some idea of what can go wrong but frankly, a hostile…

I can see there being a liability to the firm if someone leaves the office drunk and wraps their car around a tree. Maybe that's why "Beer at the office" seems to have less resistance in NYC? Maybe it's also the high price of alcohol here too?

For better or worse, if I want to grab a beer with a co-worker to talk about something informal, there's something to be said for doing it out of the building. Of course it helps that there are half a dozen spots within 2 blocks.

Re: Beer

#62

Post by bbarn »

dfxm12 wrote: post #54
drtse4 wrote: post #15

Maybe it's because i'm european and not living in the US, but this kegerator in the office thing looks like something that gets old fast. The first weeks it may sound fun, beer in the office, branded beer glasses,etc... but i don't understand how someone could care as the novelty wears of. And i hope i don't need to comment on that "devs need beer" thing, c'mon, childish stuff. Does a subset of the employee likes bee…

It has nothing to do with being European. My (multinational) company has offices in the US and Belgium. There's beer on tap in Belgium, and not in the US. Every time I visit, my colleagues in Europe always make a big stink like "how do you get stuff done over there with no beer?"

I worked for a company based in Germany, and when I'd go visit I remember the big bottles of beer in the cafeteria. I think the whole time I was there I witnessed maybe 2-3 people ever drink a beer outside of the Wednesday weisswurst lunch day (You want to talk about workplace culture being oppressive try to eat that awful stuff). It wasn't especially prohibited, it just didn't seem like anyone did it. Now, the minute we were off work, I could find half the company at the same bar in the city having a great time together nearly every day of the week.

Re: Beer

#63

Post by bbarn »

Tichy wrote: post #44
bbarn wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the difference here is what you're describing is a group of beer nerds who happen to work together (Russian River in Chicago, that takes effort) vs a culture of slamming miller lite all day long while "working"

But then, if you don't like it, why work there? Personally I hate ties. I hope I'll never have to work at a place where I'd be forced to wear a tie. Yet I am not calling for all offices to ban ties.

Personally, I agree. I'm a huge fan of beer. I think a better point though in the context of startups is who are you not getting to work there by embracing the culture? Is it worth it?

Re: Beer

#64

Post by mathattack »

notdonspaulding wrote: post #55
mgkimsal wrote: post #46

The beer culture is very very weird to me, and something I just don't get. I don't understand why companies don't promote an ice cream culture. Have custom flavors available throughout the day, a stocked freezer, etc. Sit back and have a sundae while discussing code problems. Try new toppings/sauces now and then, etc. I don't drink beer. When I was younger, it was mostly a financial issue. As I'm older, I just don't…

+1 for the proliferation of an ice cream culture.

I'm struggling enough with my weight. Give me a free ice cream culture and I'll be 150 kilos in no time! But seriously, I think this is a good idea as long as there are healthy alternatives.

Re: Beer

#65

Post by shanac »

mgkimsal wrote: post #46

The beer culture is very very weird to me, and something I just don't get. I don't understand why companies don't promote an ice cream culture. Have custom flavors available throughout the day, a stocked freezer, etc. Sit back and have a sundae while discussing code problems. Try new toppings/sauces now and then, etc. I don't drink beer. When I was younger, it was mostly a financial issue. As I'm older, I just don't…

upvote for ice cream. or anything else

Re: Beer

#66

Post by peterwwillis »

What strikes me about this blog post is it's not actually making a point using supporting evidence. They don't even have any negative experiences to even use as example. This person just doesn't want beer in their (or others') workplace.

I agree with all the author's points. But I have worked several places with not only beer, but liquor on hand. Nobody got drunk, nobody acted like an asshat (more than they were sober). They were responsible.

Is that going to be the case all the time? Probably not. But then again, some workplaces are always just more shitty to work in than others, and when you encounter it you decide if you need to move on or not. It's unlikely that beer would be the single motivator driving you to that decision.

Re: Beer

#67

Post by kylec »

notdonspaulding wrote: post #55
mgkimsal wrote: post #46

The beer culture is very very weird to me, and something I just don't get. I don't understand why companies don't promote an ice cream culture. Have custom flavors available throughout the day, a stocked freezer, etc. Sit back and have a sundae while discussing code problems. Try new toppings/sauces now and then, etc. I don't drink beer. When I was younger, it was mostly a financial issue. As I'm older, I just don't…

+1 for the proliferation of an ice cream culture.

My office had an ice cream freezer during the summer and it was a huge hit. Someone even set up a Twitter account that people could follow to know when it was restocked.

Re: Beer

#68

Post by mathattack »

shanac wrote: post #58

Just as a caveat - I know Anne. I'm also a lady, so, some of the sexism arguments both do and don't ring true. I'm not sure what I think. I've drunk alcohol in the office that had beer as a way of thinking through a problem. It worked. I also know a few engineers and other tech people who are alcoholics, and have admitted to me they spent serious time (and still do) in AA. I'm not sure the continual serving beer at p…

Finally, the one thing that does bother me - beer in tech companies usually means they want you to be there 24/7. Fine, ok - but you can do business elsewhere. For all you know interacting with some bartender may help you - and it isn't going to happen if your work life is also your social life, as implied by the kegs.

This is very true, and includes other benefits too. Dinner is a cheap price for a few hours of developer time. Laundry service? Much cheaper than a few hours of developer time. Package delivery at the office? Again much cheaper...

Re: Beer

#69

Post by bbarn »

jiggy2011 wrote: post #6

Amongst companies that keep beer on premesis what is the culture surrounding it? If you come into work on monday morning and everyone is already onto their 3rd Carlsberg export by 12:30 then I can see why that might cause problems. OTOH companies that I've worked at that have kept beer in the fridge it has always been something that might be enjoyed with lunch on a friday or at 7PM when one has stayed a little late f…

It's been present in the last three places I've worked. At one, it was definitely the "after 4 on Fridays" type of thing (115 person company at the time), at another it was the "start at lunch and go till the end of the day" type (8 employees, bad work environment outside of the beer), and at the last, it was pretty much in the fridge and the same regular group would grab one at 3 or 4 every few days or so.

Re: Beer

#70

Post by mathattack »

drtse4 wrote: post #37
spindritf wrote: post #22

Most programming is nothing like operating heavy machinery or heart surgery, there's no reason not to have beer on tap. Working conditions have been improving greatly over the last century. I for one welcome a bit of pampering. Small doses of alcohol actually improve mood and cognitive performance[1]. Athletic too but that's less relevant. If some people like it, let them have it. What happened to "live and let live"…

[1] Mood and cognitive performance improved by a small amount of alcohol given with a lunchtime meal.

Everyone is different here. I used to work in Paris periodically, and it did work well there. People never got drunk, but frequently had wine for lunch. Then I worked in Australia. You knew better than to try and get a serious question answered on a Friday afternoon.

I personally find that I get tired with alcohol, and while my creativity may go up, my focus goes down. As such, I don't like alcohol at lunch, but that's a personal choice.

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