Hacker News is a social echo chamber • Hacker News Board

Re: Hacker News is a social echo chamber

#191

Post by protomyth » Tue, Oct 15, 2013, 8:34 PM UTC

Steko wrote: post #185

protomyth wrote: post #95

"The original story linked to a review of peer-reviewed scientific research." I believe the credit we assign to peer reviewed scientific, mathematical, or engineering papers shouldn't be anywhere near the same weight we assign to peer reviewed social science papers. I dealt with quite a lot of these papers early in my career and they do a wonderful job of backing up grant proposals but a poor job of being correct. My…

"My takeaway was that they tried to present some idea as universal " Strange apologia. This isn't about whether it was a good article or not or the relative merits of peer reviewed social science. It's about whether it's good for the community when top articles are disappeared by a bunch of dittoheads simply because pg was critical. Before pg post: top article. After pg post: flagged to oblivion. If that's going to b…

I assume, since you commented well after spartango, that you read spartango's comment and my reply. To repeat, "I don't dismiss the whole of the article, but I do dismiss its premise event."

Also "My takeaway was that they tried to present some idea as universal", is a takeaway from social science research, not the article.

Re: Hacker News is a social echo chamber

#192

Post by Crake » Tue, Oct 15, 2013, 9:15 PM UTC

asdasf wrote: post #187

nyan_sandwich wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>if we can't have this conversation, who can? lesswrong.com is typically able to discuss difficult topics much more rationally than the rest of the internet.

Unfortunately, a large subset of the people who wish to have the conversation, consider lesswrong.com to be sexist and that being "logical" and "rational" are part of the problem. I don't believe it is a conversation that can actually be productive, at all.

Logic is a PART OF THE PATRIARCHY.

/s

Re: Hacker News is a social echo chamber

#193

Post by theorique » Tue, Oct 15, 2013, 9:37 PM UTC

ginko wrote: post #94

theorique wrote: post #8

In other words, a place focused on particular subjects (technology, programming, science) collects people with similar life experiences, interests, worldviews, etc.

What does having an interest in technology, programming and science have to do with the huge libertarian/pro-capitalist bias HN has?

Productive people with real skills are part of that fraction of humankind who make stuff that others want, and don't sponge off their fellows. As such, they tend to be in support of political and economic freedom, and against socialism and redistributions.

Re: Hacker News is a social echo chamber

#194

Post by nbouscal » Tue, Oct 15, 2013, 9:37 PM UTC

sanxiyn wrote: post #146

nbouscal wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm genuinely curious, what is political about, say, a discussion between two fellow students clarifying a point of theory that they just learned? Or on the other end of the spectrum, a discussion between friends about the weather? I can easily agree that many discussions are political, maybe even most . But all ? I don't see it.

While I agree that some discussions are not political, I think the parent comment's main argument is that "I don't like politics" is a very political statement (for status quo), and I completely agree.

I definitely agree with that as well, maybe I'm being a little pedantic, but she or he did make the claim that all discussions are political. It just struck me the wrong way as someone who really enjoys non-political discussions (when I can find them).

Re: Hacker News is a social echo chamber

#195

Post by theorique » Tue, Oct 15, 2013, 9:37 PM UTC

ginko wrote: post #94

theorique wrote: post #8

In other words, a place focused on particular subjects (technology, programming, science) collects people with similar life experiences, interests, worldviews, etc.

What does having an interest in technology, programming and science have to do with the huge libertarian/pro-capitalist bias HN has?

Productive people with real skills are part of that fraction of humankind who make stuff that others want, and don't sponge off their fellows. As such, they tend to be in support of political and economic freedom, and against socialism and redistributions.

Re: Hacker News is a social echo chamber

#196

Post by theorique » Tue, Oct 15, 2013, 9:37 PM UTC

ginko wrote: post #94

theorique wrote: post #8

In other words, a place focused on particular subjects (technology, programming, science) collects people with similar life experiences, interests, worldviews, etc.

What does having an interest in technology, programming and science have to do with the huge libertarian/pro-capitalist bias HN has?

Productive people with real skills are part of that fraction of humankind who make stuff that others want, and don't sponge off their fellows. As such, they tend to be in support of political and economic freedom, and against socialism and redistributions.

Re: Hacker News is a social echo chamber

#197

Post by NovemberWest » Tue, Oct 15, 2013, 9:54 PM UTC

Funny, my concerns about the social climate here are rather different. But I suspect writing this type of article is probably not the way to fix things. When people feel attacked, they get defensive and tend to become more entrenched, not less, due to trying to justify their behavior.

Re: Hacker News is a social echo chamber

#198

Post by 011011100 » Tue, Oct 15, 2013, 10:53 PM UTC

afreak wrote: post #25

kmfrk wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Communities with good moderation, yes. Something Awful and certain subreddits for example.

SA moderation is only successful because it costs you at least $10 USD to restore a banned account.

And that's a great policy.

Re: Hacker News is a social echo chamber

#199

Post by EliRivers » Tue, Oct 15, 2013, 10:56 PM UTC

Stories that appear to challenge the narrative that good programmers are just naturally talented tend to vanish.

Wait, is that the common narrative? Surely the only people who believe that are the elderly, who just can't shake the "child genius" idea of programmers they were fed in the seventies and eighties?

Re: Hacker News is a social echo chamber

#200

Post by wellboy » Wed, Oct 16, 2013, 12:04 AM UTC

DougWebb wrote: post #37

I'm curious how many people who have the ability to upvote or flag stories actually do so. For my part, I'm very conservative: - I never flag stories; I may not find a story interesting, but I don't feel it's appropriate to impose my interests on others or 'police' their discussions. - I rarely upvote stories, mostly because I'm usually browsing stories that are already on the front-page. Occasionally I skim through…

You know what sux, stories critical of HN are getting flagged and pushed off the front page, exactly the flaw that this article points out. This article is at position 58 now with 308 upvotes after being submitted 9 hours ago. There's another link from 9h ago with 48 upvotes and it's at position 36.

This article is direct user feedback and points out that moderation is just harmful for what HN stands for, why "making it disappear". You can't moderate a community-driven website. You can for porn or harassment speech, but not for critique, seriously. Even if the critique is unconstructive, that's how humans discuss, don't moderate that, otherwise you will falsify the outcome.

That's like the NSA, always trying to control things and sweeping things under the carpet, no like.