Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Because it needs to be said

blogjustine.wordpress.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 635 posts

Re: Because it needs to be said

#241

Post by philwelch »

steveklabnik wrote: post #72
ck2 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In recent months this year I’ve been arrested, charged with a DUI ... become a borderline alcoholic She has been drinking and driving. This is not just peer pressure, this is unforgivable.

Yes, victims are often traumatized after an event like this, and it causes them to make poor decisions later. That doesn't invalidate the assault. Consent is consent.

And if she ran over a pedestrian while intoxicated? Hey, maybe Joe was acting out because of a traumatic event in his past?

Look, I can sympathize with her because of what she's been through, but that doesn't earn her exoneration or excuses for her "bad decisions".

Re: Because it needs to be said

#242

Post by ElliotH »

It actually doesn't matter if this particular account is true (I think it almost certainly is, but the point isn't worth arguing). Or any of the other niggles and counterpoints people are raising.

We can just decide that the story as described is a terrible thing to happen. We decide that if we see something similar happening, we will try our best to prevent it.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#243

Post by eddiedunn »

I'm disgusted by this whole thing. Here's a lot of people jumping to conclusions based on the one-sided account of one person's blog post. Hasn't it occurred to you people that she might be lying? I'm not saying she is, but there is a possibility. We have legal processes for a reason.

Based on her account alone, I can say this: 1. She's very emotionally unstable and needs to seek professional help, for her own sake as well as everyone else's 2. She believes she was sexually assaulted, and consequently needs to report this to the police 3. Making a blog post about it was a big mistake if she has any hopes of the legal system punishing the man that sexually assaulted her

Finally, we live in a society where the man is supposed to "take initiative" and be "assertive and confident". You may say that it sucks, and I won't argue against you, but that's just the way it is. So men will do try to do things that women will not always appreciate. Consequently women _need_ to learn how to say "NO". This is really fucking important, for their own sake.

I imagine things would've played out a lot differently if Justine had taken responsibility for herself -- that she was in a bad situation with a man, but a situation that she, being a grown woman, could get out of by loudly saying "NO". Instead she asked the guy about his wife and kids. Instead she stood there passively until a knight in shining armor saved her -- too late.

Women are not children. They need to learn, or be taught, to stand up for themselves. There won't always be someone there to defend them. Dealing with this fact is part of growing up.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#245

Post by brazzy »

chris_wot wrote: post #176
downandout wrote: post #168

Her boss should not have even attempted to have a fling with her - that exposes the company to liability, and he was rightly fired. It's pretty obvious that she didn't feel that this was enough punishment for his behavior, and has now publicly named him in an attempt to extract her idea of justice out of the situation. It would be interesting to see if he responds with any kind of legal action, as I imagine that he h…

Assuming the blog post is the same story she would have given to police, this certainly wouldn't have made for a criminal case even if she had filed a report. He penetrated her. It sure as hell IS sexual assault!

How many times have you penetrated someone without explicitly asking for consent? Many, many times, I'm willing to bet (assuming that you're male).

Re: Because it needs to be said

#246

Post by dylangs1030 »

cynicalkane wrote: post #216
justin66 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unmitigated bullshit. > However, the response of Justine matches ancient societal expectations: if a woman has been violated, she loses all value. "The response of Justine matches" (be more pretentious) the response of someone who has experienced extreme violation of trust by a close friend who was also an authority figure. If you like, invent a hypothetical scenario that involves public humiliation and violation of…

This is why many reasonable people simply do not like to talk about sexual assault, on here or in real life. It seems to cause people to default to a position where you must adopt one view (i.e. theirs) to the exclusion of all others. If you talk about the effects societal norms have on victims, or on strategies to navigate a misogynistic world, people will accuse you of "victim blaming". On the other hand there are…

The two of you are doing two things at the same time.

First, you're having an intellectually legitimate debate that's probably revealing some good counter points and offering valid, alternative perspectives on the broader issue.

Second, you're continuing a cold argument devoid of any (productive) empathy in lieu of passionate, scientific rigor.

This is not what this post needs. Let it go, guys. Neither of you is going to convince anyone meaningfully. The issue is polarizing enough as it is. This is a situation that calls for empathy and support, and the interchange of ideas that won't put other people off of listening to each other in an open way.

I don't mean to be self-righteous, but this is a community somewhat known for entering into page-length tangential debates -- that would be detrimental to the subject at hand.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#248

Post by Confusion »

justin66 wrote: post #202
Confusion wrote: post #118

I think there's a deeper cultural problem here: that the behavior of Joe had that much of an impact on Justine's life in the first place. There are women that would experience the same thing, but would not retreat into themselves in this extreme way. There are even women that would shrug it off. However, the response of Justine matches ancient societal expectations: if a woman has been violated, she loses all value.…

Unmitigated bullshit. > However, the response of Justine matches ancient societal expectations: if a woman has been violated, she loses all value. "The response of Justine matches" (be more pretentious) the response of someone who has experienced extreme violation of trust by a close friend who was also an authority figure. If you like, invent a hypothetical scenario that involves public humiliation and violation of…

You now perpetuate the myth that what happened to Justine should necessarily have such an extreme influence on her life. I say: no, this is not the "response of someone who has experienced extreme violation of trust". This is a "response of someone who has experienced extreme violation of trust". It is only the response of someone with a certain nature and nurture. It is an understandable response and Justine is not to blame for it at all. That doesn't mean it can't be changed. If it can be changed, that doesn't mean she was being overdramatic in the first place, or some such nonsense. Those kinds of thoughts are exactly the kinds of implicit beliefs I'm pointing to and the kinds of thoughts that e.g. prevent someone from searching help: they are afraid that when they are helped, they are exposed for the frauds they feel like.

You don't wonder why such an event would have one effect on one person, another effect on another person and whether perhaps things could be changed so Justine suffers less? I suggest that this strongly depends on what the person believes and that this can be changed, so her life changes for the better.

I suggest a therapist because I have firsthand experience with needing help to change my beliefs about the world.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#249

Post by chris_wot »

anu_gupta wrote: post #225
chris_wot wrote: post #170

I have a few things to say. This is, frankly, appalling! Justice should never have been asked to do "body shots", and her boss should have been charged with a criminal offense. The second thing I'd like to say is an anecdote from some time ago when I went to VMWare's vSohere conference in Sydney. I drink alcohol, but only ever in moderation ad I never get drunk. The reason for this is that in my teenage years I got d…

I think you've been very lucky, you could easily have ended up being trafficked or your body organs harvested. You clearly have a legitimate case, are you taking legal action against VMWare and everyone who could have seen your glass being topped up?

Who said anything about suing? My main concern is that at these events that responsible alcohol serving is happening.

I've no idea why you have such an aggressive tone, but it was uncalled for.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#250

Post by beloch »

Somewhat tangential query for people who know something about psychiatry:

My standard way of dealing with shit is to repress it. If I get angry, sad, etc. the first thing I do is squash the emotion (anger is generally the biggest problem but the easiest to squish). If circumstances may cause that negative emotion to reoccur, I take reasonable action to prevent it from doing so whenever possible (It's hard to bring your grandma back to life unfortunately), but only after going smoosh and possibly sleeping on it. Some people say you should vent your emotions, but if I do that I just feel worse.

Here (finally) is the question: Do the scary consequences of repressed memories that keep popping up in movies and TV actually exist? If something horrifyingly traumatic happens to me and I just repress it and move on, am I setting myself up for trouble down the road? I ask this because there's no doubting a bad thing happened to Justine but, were I in her shoes, I'd have repressed that shit right then and there. I wouldn't have done nothing, but squish would be my definite step #1.

Post reply on HN