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Because it needs to be said

blogjustine.wordpress.com

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Re: Because it needs to be said

#61

Post by DigitalJack »

ryan-allen wrote: post #46
wilkie wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the painted lie that her company allowed him to make: http://objo.com/2013/01/31/funemployment/ This is the reality. I don't hold too much optimism that the police would somehow solve this problem considering the damage done and the lack of any support to go back to.

THERE WERE TWO WITNESSES. His blog post is irrelevant to his guilt or innocence based on a blog post of another individual. Two witnesses is pretty clear cut. It's called 'corroboration', you should look it up and learn something perhaps!

The problem is what did they witness? A girl doing a bodyshot, followed by the man who took the shot kissing her and getting hands on. In this post I don't see anything indicating she tried to reject these moves.

I don't see how somebody could tell it was unwanted from a third person perspective.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#62

Post by ck2 »

konstruktor wrote: post #33
ck2 wrote: post #22

This isn't her fault at all but I have to say this: Hang around people doing drugs (large amounts of alcohol) and bad things are guaranteed to happen sooner or later.

Cool advice. Now please tell me about an industry where "drinking with the guys" is not a central part of the networking/socializing needed to have a career.

In recent months this year I’ve been arrested, charged with a DUI ... become a borderline alcoholic

She has been drinking and driving. This is not just peer pressure, this is unforgivable.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#63

Post by steveklabnik »

ryan-allen wrote: post #44
steveklabnik wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is possible that, in the moment, that would have made a difference. Remember this assault occurred almost a year ago. Furthermore, I didn't say 'crimes,' I said sexual assault. Again, I am not being abstract: if you talk to anyone who works with sexual assault victims, you know how futile that course of action is. Let's not forget that lawyers cost money, for example.

Statue of limitations on sexual assault is longer than 9 months. Two witnesses that can be tracked down. You are advising against not even trying to press charges? Character assassination without trial is better? The courts exist for a reason and there were two witnesses. Do you have any citations for the futility of reporting a crime with two witnesses?

> Do you have any citations for the futility of reporting a crime with two witnesses?

http://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/reporting-ra...

http://mpra.ub.uni-muenchen.de/43249/

That's just two.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#64

Post by steveklabnik »

GeorgeOrr wrote: post #57
sgentle wrote: post #42

I'm glad this is out there. It's a tragedy that it happened at all, but it would be an even bigger tragedy if nobody else knew the consequences. I think everyone experiences that moment sometimes where you think "is this okay? should I say something?" And after you waver for a second, your decision reinforces itself and you end up doing nothing at all. Maybe you can even convince yourself that it was all okay in the…

The vast majority of people are good, honourable though often less vocal on the internet. We outnumber the bastards out there. We just need to learn to step up and stop evil when we see it. That's the leson I take from Zach's account. If we can be just as quick in doing that as others are in posting judgemental comments on board then a lot of horrible experiences will be averted. How horrible the effect evil has on p…

"All that's needed for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

Re: Because it needs to be said

#65

Post by ck2 »

iMark wrote: post #43
ck2 wrote: post #22

This isn't her fault at all but I have to say this: Hang around people doing drugs (large amounts of alcohol) and bad things are guaranteed to happen sooner or later.

You believe people should go to bars with the expectation they'll be sexually assaulted?

What part of "not her fault" was not clear?

But I believe if you hang out with people who drink a lot, often, sooner or later you are going to regret being associated with them.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#66

Post by konstruktor »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #15

One thing we can all do: Start asking before you touch in situations where you know you don't have to. I know it's awkward. But the reason people like Joe think they can put their hands down someone's pants is because we don't have a cultural practice of "ask first". They see you put your arms around that friend of yours who doesn't mind at all, and they think "Ah, cool... so you can just sense if she's cool with it…

The problem with "ask first" is that it is a self-defeating behaviour in current culture: Touching is an integral part of flirting and also common in interactions that don't involve sexual or romantic interest. And the current social norm is to start with light touching at a non-intimate place, and see if the other person reciprocates. Doing so is associated with confidence. "Can I touch the outside of your arm?" would be perceived as creepy for two reasons: It will be considered a sign of insecurity, and people often aren't explicitly aware of the implicit rules on touching, and would thus find the request strange.

Asking first already works well in some sexual subcultures as well as some professional settings: For example, in some armies, a superior will ask a soldier whether they may touch them before fixing something that's wrong about the way they are wearing their uniform. That's a very professional way of dealing with having to touch somebody who is reporting to you. The hard question is how one can engineer this cultural change in society in general. I would love to see that happening in my lifetime

Re: Because it needs to be said

#67

Post by steveklabnik »

stock_toaster wrote: post #53
steveklabnik wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider that the person who would be doing the banning is the victim, which means that she would have to read all of those shitty comments, continually, in order to determine who to ban.

I cringed when I saw that comments were enabled _at all_ on that post.

Justine explicitly said that she's leaving them on in order to show everyone what happens when someone reports a sexual assault.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#68

Post by x0x0 »

ChrisNorstrom wrote: post #21

This is a body shot for those who don't know. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBPT6AUnUnI | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKP99wrx6Sc | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBbz6hhoKbg Open-Minded Alternative-Understanding Scenario time: You're a male with your male gay friends at a gay bar. They're taller than you as they are gays of the muscle bear variety. You're the only one who's straight but you want to show them you…

You can simultaneously think that what Joe is claimed to have done is totally and utterly wrong and that doing body shots and allowing back rubbing and head kissing with coworkers, let alone supervisors, is incredibly stupid.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#69

Post by steveklabnik »

NhanH wrote: post #45
erikpukinskis wrote: post #15

One thing we can all do: Start asking before you touch in situations where you know you don't have to. I know it's awkward. But the reason people like Joe think they can put their hands down someone's pants is because we don't have a cultural practice of "ask first". They see you put your arms around that friend of yours who doesn't mind at all, and they think "Ah, cool... so you can just sense if she's cool with it…

Exactly how would you ask that questions? (I'm honestly asking, I grew up in a country where personal space are quite strongly respect - even hugging between close friends are almost nonexistent.)

http://www.consentissexy.org/ discusses this topic in depth, including how to explicitly ask.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#70

Post by sdoering »

sneak wrote: post #51
sdoering wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm so with you. After reading this (and a lot of similar) account, I knew, that I would never(!) enter any conference like that, regardless, where it is held. An drug-induced culture like that is just hurtful/unhealthy. Regardless of the drug they put into their bodies, I have an internal policy never to mix with druggies. I am really shocked, that it seems so normal to drink that much booze. Hey, I really like a gl…

> An drug-induced culture like that is just hurtful/unhealthy. Regardless of the drug they put into their bodies, I have an internal policy never to mix with druggies. Caffeine culture suffers no such problems.

OK, I am with you on that one. ;-)

But I really feeld the withdrawl symptoms in the afternoon at work, if I do not at least drink two cups of coffee till 2pm.

That is why I try to reduce my caffein-intake gradually.

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