Because it needs to be said • Hacker News Board

Re: Because it needs to be said

#191

Post by wilkie » Sat, Oct 12, 2013, 9:33 AM UTC

downandout wrote: post #168

Her boss should not have even attempted to have a fling with her - that exposes the company to liability, and he was rightly fired. It's pretty obvious that she didn't feel that this was enough punishment for his behavior, and has now publicly named him in an attempt to extract her idea of justice out of the situation. It would be interesting to see if he responds with any kind of legal action, as I imagine that he h…

Even without the two witnesses corroborating, this is most certainly sexual assault.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#192

Post by bitL » Sat, Oct 12, 2013, 9:33 AM UTC

throwaway86 wrote: post #93

hawkharris wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's right. I didn't mean to imply that citizens can initiate it on their own, but the author should at least try to press charges. The definition of sexual assault / rape varies by state. In any case, I don't think vigilante justice by blog post is an appropriate solution.

And yet frighteningly effective; here's an anecdote that includes a thought exercise to consider, and let me preface the thought exercise by making clear that I am not accusing anyone of lying in the situation linked here and intentionally have no opinion on it, for reasons that shall become clear. (In fact, I wish I hadn't read it.) Let's introduce Bob (not his real name). Bob is a mid-level engineering manager. Sin…

The only way is to wear GoPro-alike all the time while interacting with other people or record everything on your cellphone (at least audio). Equivalent to Russian dash cams. Perhaps some use for the glass.

There are some really nasty people out there.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#193

Post by throwaway9848 » Sat, Oct 12, 2013, 9:33 AM UTC

justin66 wrote: post #155

conformal wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

posting your personal account of someone's crimes against you in a blog is not a fair or reasonable way to deal with what is clearly a very serious matter. it sounds like what happened was awful and these types of incidents are common in many predominantly male professions, e.g. law, finance. i was recently seriously harassed and more-or-less sexually assaulted by an acquaintance's wife at a wedding in a swimming poo…

> this trend of women posting their account of a sexual assault online is alarming because of what hawkharris describes: it could be false and then is plastered all over the net, irrevocably damaging the reputation of the accused. Here is something I find curious: you are one of many commenters here literally ignoring the fact that Justine has witnesses to what happened and bringing up the hypothetical, irrelevant po…

And here is one of those eyewitnesses accounts - http://blog.matt-darby.com/essays/i-am-the-other-developer

Re: Because it needs to be said

#194

Post by steveklabnik » Sat, Oct 12, 2013, 9:34 AM UTC

Sagat wrote: post #177

A tragic event but I really don't understand how making a public blog post is supposed to make anything better.

Please read the last paragraph. She didn't want to make this post, but an outcry for details from the community forced her hand.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#195

Post by chris_wot » Sat, Oct 12, 2013, 9:34 AM UTC

sneak wrote: post #142

exodust wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. She actually lay on the bar AFTER he had his hand on her butt. That's a bit different to her account. Also, she failed to mention the "chomping on her breast". Silly girl.

No action taken by a person entitles others to sexually assault them. There is no such thing as "advance consent". Please stop perpetuating this poisonous meme.

Thank you. I concur fully!!!

Re: Because it needs to be said

#196

Post by PhasmaFelis » Sat, Oct 12, 2013, 9:34 AM UTC

conformal wrote: post #143

hawkharris wrote: post #25

My ex-girlfriend wrote a blog post similar to this one, accusing me of sexual assault. I volunteered to take a police polygraph test, hired a lawyer and initiated a libel suit. Fortunately, I didn’t need to go further because she suddenly changed my name & her story. But the experience was still stressful and scary. Many commenters vilified me because they assumed her information was true. Prior to being falsely accu…

posting your personal account of someone's crimes against you in a blog is not a fair or reasonable way to deal with what is clearly a very serious matter. it sounds like what happened was awful and these types of incidents are common in many predominantly male professions, e.g. law, finance. i was recently seriously harassed and more-or-less sexually assaulted by an acquaintance's wife at a wedding in a swimming poo…

"Women who are assaulted should keep quiet about it because I can't tell if they're lying or not." Is that about right?

Instead of saying she shouldn't post because "it could be false," how about you recognize that she knows whether it's true or not? For God's sake, the fact that some people are liars does not mean that truth-tellers should keep their mouths shut.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#197

Post by sneak » Sat, Oct 12, 2013, 9:34 AM UTC

throwaway9848 wrote: post #188

sneak wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that is not a deeper problem. It may be a problem, but it is minor compared to the fact that there are vast numbers of people who think that sexually assaulting people is okay. Different brains respond to severe emotional trauma in different ways. I urge you to spend some time with smart people with PTSD. Collect some data and evolve your beliefs.

Calling complete bullshit on you for "vast numbers of people who thing sexually assaulting people is okay". Either your definition of sexual assault is much different that standard usage, or you hang out with deplorable people. Edit: What did you hope to accomplish in your response? Edit 2: Also, perhaps instead you could educate us what it is we could learn by hanging out with smart people with PTSD. Since not all o…

http://bit.ly/1g8M3u1

Re: Because it needs to be said

#198

Post by abrimo » Sat, Oct 12, 2013, 9:35 AM UTC

Confusion wrote: post #118

I think there's a deeper cultural problem here: that the behavior of Joe had that much of an impact on Justine's life in the first place. There are women that would experience the same thing, but would not retreat into themselves in this extreme way. There are even women that would shrug it off. However, the response of Justine matches ancient societal expectations: if a woman has been violated, she loses all value.…

You're trying to blame the victim, which is troublingly common when someone has been raped or sexually harassed but it is never the right response. It is traumatising when these things happen, it is personally demeaning and it is never acceptable.

Justine is brave for coming forward and we should encourage everyone in a similar situation to do the same and support them when they do.

The deeper cultural problem here is that your comment has been voted to the top.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#199

Post by chris_wot » Sat, Oct 12, 2013, 9:36 AM UTC

sneak wrote: post #189

chris_wot wrote: post #170

I have a few things to say. This is, frankly, appalling! Justice should never have been asked to do "body shots", and her boss should have been charged with a criminal offense. The second thing I'd like to say is an anecdote from some time ago when I went to VMWare's vSohere conference in Sydney. I drink alcohol, but only ever in moderation ad I never get drunk. The reason for this is that in my teenage years I got d…

> VMware has a responsibilty to ensure that conference attendees don't get drunk on the conference floor. I don't like drunks or being drunk, but you totally lost me here. You're just making stuff up.

In Australia, they do.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/lr2008198/

Re: Because it needs to be said

#200

Post by throwaway86 » Sat, Oct 12, 2013, 9:36 AM UTC

sneak wrote: post #182

throwaway86 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rape creates victims. False accusations create victims. Before you say "not the same!" they both often end in suicide. So, knowing that and knowing how difficult of a topic false accusations are to study and how little we know about the bad side of human beings, I would hope that anybody who is reasonable would read "rape is a bigger deal than false accusations of rape" and say whoa, nelly, partner, do you know somet…

It's a bigger deal because of frequency. There are orders of magnitude more rapes than rape accusations, even including legitimate ones. Rape is endemic in our society. If you are comparing them 1:1, we can have a discussion, but I am speaking in aggregate.

And yet I worry about both because I realize that all victims deserve my sympathy and attention, regardless of how they were made a victim or whether there is enough of them to justify me giving them a second thought. And I'm saying that the blogging response to the one you do care about might be having unintentional consequences for the other that you don't care about, and advising caution on an obviously explosive subject for the sake of both problems.

Look, it's your prerogative to dismiss victims of false accusation. It's even your prerogative to condescendingly dismiss me from the discussion as you are doing here. It's my prerogative to care about the things you don't, and by dismissing a problem due to frequency, you are no better than the people that dismiss rape in the industry. Can you really not see that?

I already made clear that I do not want to argue about this. I'm simply uninterested in your opinion on false accusation victimhood because based on how dismissive you are of it, you haven't been paying attention and you haven't had it hit close to home. I've been in a similar situation that resulted in my life being threatened at a conference. I know how victims of rape feel, having to sit on HN and keep reminding people that rape really is a problem and shouldn't be dismissed, because here I am debating false accusation victimhood with some random on HN.