Because it needs to be said • Hacker News Board

Re: Because it needs to be said

#171

Post by sneak » Sat, Oct 12, 2013, 9:17 AM UTC

sliverstorm wrote: post #105

I am fairly certain that the events that Monday in January ruined me for the rest of my life Is this typical? I've read a fair amount of stories from rape victims, and yet here we are to understand this woman's life has come completely unhinged and ruined for good by something... I don't know, somewhat less dramatic than a rape. If I hadn't read the story of the event itself, I'd have honestly thought it was about a…

Different brains respond very differently to various types of severe emotional trauma.

I was fairly surprised by this data when I first experienced it, too. It's incredibly fascinating how the human mind works.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#172

Post by Grue3 » Sat, Oct 12, 2013, 9:17 AM UTC

This post has confirmed every stereotype I heard about Ruby programmers.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#173

Post by steveklabnik » Sat, Oct 12, 2013, 9:17 AM UTC

avelis wrote: post #156

I think one question I have is how do we encourage a culture to not allow bystanders? It's an open question, but I hypothesize, if Joe was also my boss, would I have the courage to say something? I want to say I hope I do. I also hypothesize, what if I did say something before a victim situation took place, but as a result I was let go. Should I have stayed quiet? I ask these questions in hopes of shedding light more…

> I have is how do we encourage a culture to not allow bystanders?

A lot of this happens because of an inter-relation of other beliefs. For example, some people do not intervene because they believe that she must deserve it.

Another factor is that stepping forward means risking yourself. People err on the side of caution. Maybe they don't have the full story...

I also wonder what I would have done...

Re: Because it needs to be said

#174

Post by wilkie » Sat, Oct 12, 2013, 9:18 AM UTC

adamnemecek wrote: post #158

sneak wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dislike the idea that anyone is obligated to provide trigger warnings, too, but the post has important data in it. Also, don't be so snarky for the sake of being snarky. Productive snark is okay.

My snarkiness is in fact constructive. It points out that whatever saying "trigger warnings" is supposed to achieve, it fails at doing that and turns away potential readers.

The trigger warnings suggest that those who have been sexually assaulted don't need to read the article because they already know more than what it is going to say, and it is cruel to have them read it without suggesting it may cause them grief through invoking their own pain.

To be 'triggered' by trigger warnings is certainly a constructed prejudice against empathy.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#175

Post by throwaway86 » Sat, Oct 12, 2013, 9:18 AM UTC

wilkie wrote: post #148

throwaway86 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't want to get pulled into an argument on this because I've said what I mean to say, but your second sentence is really bold.

The fact that you think that statement is bold says a lot about how far we are from solving it and helping people.

Rape creates victims. False accusations create victims. Before you say "not the same!" they both often end in suicide.

So, knowing that and knowing how difficult of a topic false accusations are to study and how little we know about the bad side of human beings, I would hope that anybody who is reasonable would read "rape is a bigger deal than false accusations of rape" and say whoa, nelly, partner, do you know something that the rest of us don't or are you acting on your gut feeling? Or are rape victims just the team you happen to root for in the "victims I need to give a shit about" World Series?

The fact that you don't think it's bold reinforces my entire point about concluding things too soon. And I'm intentionally discussing this on a deliberate action that demonstrates that false accusations are easier than ever, given the Internet's (a) reach, (b) accessibility, and (c) slow erosion of doubt in most folks, who make up their minds rather readily on the first thing they see.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#176

Post by chris_wot » Sat, Oct 12, 2013, 9:18 AM UTC

downandout wrote: post #168

Her boss should not have even attempted to have a fling with her - that exposes the company to liability, and he was rightly fired. It's pretty obvious that she didn't feel that this was enough punishment for his behavior, and has now publicly named him in an attempt to extract her idea of justice out of the situation. It would be interesting to see if he responds with any kind of legal action, as I imagine that he h…

Assuming the blog post is the same story she would have given to police, this certainly wouldn't have made for a criminal case even if she had filed a report.

He penetrated her. It sure as hell IS sexual assault!

Re: Because it needs to be said

#177

Post by Sagat » Sat, Oct 12, 2013, 9:18 AM UTC

A tragic event but I really don't understand how making a public blog post is supposed to make anything better.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#178

Post by raverbashing » Sat, Oct 12, 2013, 9:20 AM UTC

sneak wrote: post #17

erikpukinskis wrote: post #15

One thing we can all do: Start asking before you touch in situations where you know you don't have to. I know it's awkward. But the reason people like Joe think they can put their hands down someone's pants is because we don't have a cultural practice of "ask first". They see you put your arms around that friend of yours who doesn't mind at all, and they think "Ah, cool... so you can just sense if she's cool with it…

I think a much more workable solution would be to collectively attempt to abandon the shitty American brand of alcohol culture that seems to be a fairly common contributing factor in a lot of these stories about rape and assault. Alcohol makes one stupid, not cool. I have no idea why it is held in such high esteem in the US tech industry.

No, the problem with American alcohol culture is that they treat it as a "big bad monster", rather than a part of life.

Result: people not knowing their limits.

Public drinking is allowed in Germany, however, funny as it seems it's not a barbaric (ahem) hellhole. Nor you see a lot of people "losing it"

That's maturity.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#179

Post by sneak » Sat, Oct 12, 2013, 9:20 AM UTC

chroma wrote: post #166

Confusion wrote: post #118

I think there's a deeper cultural problem here: that the behavior of Joe had that much of an impact on Justine's life in the first place. There are women that would experience the same thing, but would not retreat into themselves in this extreme way. There are even women that would shrug it off. However, the response of Justine matches ancient societal expectations: if a woman has been violated, she loses all value.…

This is a difficult point to make. I'm surprised you didn't use a throwaway account. I've been assaulted by peers. I've had drugs slipped into my drink. One time, someone put a gun to my head and robbed me. After these experiences, I had nightmares, phobias, and insecurities. But surprisingly quickly, I recovered. Without social expectations of permanent trauma, the mind seems to be quite resilient. Thank you for mak…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eggshell_skull

Re: Because it needs to be said

#180

Post by sneak » Sat, Oct 12, 2013, 9:22 AM UTC

conformal wrote: post #143

hawkharris wrote: post #25

My ex-girlfriend wrote a blog post similar to this one, accusing me of sexual assault. I volunteered to take a police polygraph test, hired a lawyer and initiated a libel suit. Fortunately, I didn’t need to go further because she suddenly changed my name & her story. But the experience was still stressful and scary. Many commenters vilified me because they assumed her information was true. Prior to being falsely accu…

posting your personal account of someone's crimes against you in a blog is not a fair or reasonable way to deal with what is clearly a very serious matter. it sounds like what happened was awful and these types of incidents are common in many predominantly male professions, e.g. law, finance. i was recently seriously harassed and more-or-less sexually assaulted by an acquaintance's wife at a wedding in a swimming poo…

> posting your personal account of someone's crimes against you in a blog is not a fair or reasonable way to deal with what is clearly a very serious matter.

Publishing the truth is always fair and appropriate.