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Because it needs to be said

blogjustine.wordpress.com

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Re: Because it needs to be said

#71

Post by felipe »

cefarix wrote: post #49

As an aside, why is alcohol such a big part of things like tech meetups, etc? I've been to a few and there is always alcohol being served and people drinking it. As a Muslim, I've never touched alcohol and never will, and I don't understand the need to "alcoholize" everything. Why can't there be a culture of having just good clean fun, no alcohol, no drugs, no sexualizing? And what place does alcohol even have at tec…

As a non-believer, I've never touched a sacred book and never will, and I don't understand the need to "indoctrinate" everything. Why can't there be a culture of having just good clean fun, no religion, no wars, no oppression in the name of a virtual god?

(point being: blame the perpetrator, not the substance)

Re: Because it needs to be said

#72

Post by steveklabnik »

ck2 wrote: post #62
konstruktor wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool advice. Now please tell me about an industry where "drinking with the guys" is not a central part of the networking/socializing needed to have a career.

In recent months this year I’ve been arrested, charged with a DUI ... become a borderline alcoholic She has been drinking and driving. This is not just peer pressure, this is unforgivable.

Yes, victims are often traumatized after an event like this, and it causes them to make poor decisions later. That doesn't invalidate the assault. Consent is consent.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#73

Post by stock_toaster »

steveklabnik wrote: post #67
stock_toaster wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cringed when I saw that comments were enabled _at all_ on that post.

Justine explicitly said that she's leaving them on in order to show everyone what happens when someone reports a sexual assault.

Ah. I didn't see that mentioned in the post itself anywhere. Thanks for the info.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#74

Post by konstruktor »

ck2 wrote: post #62
konstruktor wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool advice. Now please tell me about an industry where "drinking with the guys" is not a central part of the networking/socializing needed to have a career.

In recent months this year I’ve been arrested, charged with a DUI ... become a borderline alcoholic She has been drinking and driving. This is not just peer pressure, this is unforgivable.

Nice ad hominem, but it doesn't address my question. Also, what you are taking out of context here is the author describing her life falling apart after this incident, not her behaviour before the incident.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#75

Post by GeorgeOrr »

sneak wrote: post #17
erikpukinskis wrote: post #15

One thing we can all do: Start asking before you touch in situations where you know you don't have to. I know it's awkward. But the reason people like Joe think they can put their hands down someone's pants is because we don't have a cultural practice of "ask first". They see you put your arms around that friend of yours who doesn't mind at all, and they think "Ah, cool... so you can just sense if she's cool with it…

I think a much more workable solution would be to collectively attempt to abandon the shitty American brand of alcohol culture that seems to be a fairly common contributing factor in a lot of these stories about rape and assault. Alcohol makes one stupid, not cool. I have no idea why it is held in such high esteem in the US tech industry.

The part of that culture that is, IMHO, the worst is the idea that alcohol is to blame for our behaviour.

Pigs are going to be pigs. They don't get to say "but I was drunk" Real men don't have it in them to treat others they way pigs do - alcohol or no.

I just don't blame the substance. Blame the man who thinks of his immediate satisfaction without regard to the cost he inflicts on others.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#76

Post by ck2 »

steveklabnik wrote: post #72
ck2 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In recent months this year I’ve been arrested, charged with a DUI ... become a borderline alcoholic She has been drinking and driving. This is not just peer pressure, this is unforgivable.

Yes, victims are often traumatized after an event like this, and it causes them to make poor decisions later. That doesn't invalidate the assault. Consent is consent.

I blame the boss for a whole bunch of things but where it gets to the point of getting drunk and then getting behind a wheel and killing me or my friends, that's where the victim turns into a criminal without forgiveness.

Your level of unconditional forgiveness becomes an excuse that I cannot accept.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#77

Post by ishener »

sneak wrote: post #36
hawkharris wrote: post #25

My ex-girlfriend wrote a blog post similar to this one, accusing me of sexual assault. I volunteered to take a police polygraph test, hired a lawyer and initiated a libel suit. Fortunately, I didn’t need to go further because she suddenly changed my name & her story. But the experience was still stressful and scary. Many commenters vilified me because they assumed her information was true. Prior to being falsely accu…

Unfortunately, private citizens cannot initiate criminal trials, and most police do not take reports of sexual assault very seriously, if indeed they do anything at all.

In most legal systems there is also a civil procedure against sexual (or any other) assault

Re: Because it needs to be said

#78

Post by steveklabnik »

stock_toaster wrote: post #73
steveklabnik wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Justine explicitly said that she's leaving them on in order to show everyone what happens when someone reports a sexual assault.

Ah. I didn't see that mentioned in the post itself anywhere. Thanks for the info.

No problem, it was on Twitter: https://twitter.com/SaltineJustine/status/388908504209047552

Re: Because it needs to be said

#79

Post by steveklabnik »

ck2 wrote: post #65
iMark wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You believe people should go to bars with the expectation they'll be sexually assaulted?

What part of "not her fault" was not clear? But I believe if you hang out with people who drink a lot, often, sooner or later you are going to regret being associated with them.

The reason you're getting flak is that it sounds like you're saying "I mean, I'm not saying her fault, but basically, she should have expected it, so it's her fault."

This may just be because textual communication is hard. Letting you know in case that's not what you mean.

Re: Because it needs to be said

#80

Post by hawkharris »

hawkharris wrote: post #52
sneak wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, private citizens cannot initiate criminal trials, and most police do not take reports of sexual assault very seriously, if indeed they do anything at all.

That's right. I didn't mean to imply that citizens can initiate it on their own, but the author should at least try to press charges. The definition of sexual assault / rape varies by state. In any case, I don't think vigilante justice by blog post is an appropriate solution.

steveklabnik, When someone publishes your name in a blog post concerning sexual assault, scores of people harass you in comments, emails and sometimes phone calls.

They take it into their own hands to administer justice. You become concerned that employers, friends and family members will see the accusation if they search for your name.

So, if you're angry at someone, you can achieve a form of vigilante justice by publishing negative information about them and sharing it with many people - even if your account appears to be factual and not sensational.

You'll see people attempting to take justice into their own hands if you look at the comments below the author's post.

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