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Trent Reznor Quits Web 2.0, Offers Cutting Advice To Haters

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Re: Trent Reznor Quits Web 2.0, Offers Cutting Advice To Haters

#31
post #16
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw this youtube video of an early 90s broadcast about this thing called internet, and they pretty much talked about how great it is to have a civilized conversation, without trolls. So early on it wasn't a problem, my guess is that trolls probably didn't really appear until AOL.

Specifically, on the Internet , when AOL got a Usenet gateway. No-one cared when they stayed within AOL, not least because AOL had moderators. The real Internet is not HN, it's not Facebook or Livejournal. It's 4chan and the comments on Youtube. That's what we built, that's the glorious future, the pinnacle of high tech, the global collective consciousness. How proud should we be?

4chan and Youtube comments are part of the internet. The ghetto parts, to be specific. The 4chan-style scum and villainy gets concentrated at 4chan, the Youtube-style tomfoolery stays on Youtube, and the rest of us can sit in our small splinter forums and have discussions without somebody yelling about how 9/11 was an inside job (WAKE UP, SHEEPLE!!) or posting pictures of naked underage anime characters. There have always been a bunch of people in the world that you'd rather not live near, and it's the same way on the internet.

The real internet isn't HN, but it's also not 4chan or Youtube. The real internet is the internet -- the whole internet. Tautological but true. As long as there's always some readily-accessible part of the internet without troll problems, then I'd say we're doing okay.

The real progress, though, would be figuring out how those civilized parts of the internet can stay civilized. Some forums have a small population. Some forums have a strong sense of community and ban-happy moderators. Some forums have downvoting, although that doesn't seem to stop persistent trolls. If you've got a better way, discussing it would be fun.

Re: Trent Reznor Quits Web 2.0, Offers Cutting Advice To Haters

#32

Is anybody surprised that, with 600K+ followers, many of whom are already self-selected as "edgy" or "alternate" that some small percentage of them wouldn't be absolutely manical raving lunatics? Trent could probably solve some of this with technology and create a self-policing environment, in which a core group of half-sane fans could administrate/police/censor to the betterment of all - There's a reason why Wikiped…

Anonymity seems to play a larger role than the size of the group. Join any moderately active IRC channel and you are sure to see someone acting up eventually. A channel that I frequent with fewer than 50 people has a regular troll that bugs the channel almost daily and occasional racists.

Can you ban or killfile him? With such a small population, the IRC channel could probably get away with blocking the whole IP address range that he could possibly occupy. You shouldn't have to put up with jackasses like that.

Seriously, bans work. I know at least one forum which has kept trolls away for years with the mighty ban-hammer, and maintained consistent quality of posts by making chronic idiocy a ban-worthy offense.

Re: Trent Reznor Quits Web 2.0, Offers Cutting Advice To Haters

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd stand by my identity consistently if it meant revealing the identities of others.

Your life and circumstance may allow for this, others don't. :)

In some cases anonymous expression is preferable to no expression, in others anonymous expression is not preferable over silence.

Re: Trent Reznor Quits Web 2.0, Offers Cutting Advice To Haters

#34
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Specifically, on the Internet , when AOL got a Usenet gateway. No-one cared when they stayed within AOL, not least because AOL had moderators. The real Internet is not HN, it's not Facebook or Livejournal. It's 4chan and the comments on Youtube. That's what we built, that's the glorious future, the pinnacle of high tech, the global collective consciousness. How proud should we be?

4chan and Youtube comments are part of the internet. The ghetto parts, to be specific. The 4chan-style scum and villainy gets concentrated at 4chan, the Youtube-style tomfoolery stays on Youtube, and the rest of us can sit in our small splinter forums and have discussions without somebody yelling about how 9/11 was an inside job (WAKE UP, SHEEPLE!!) or posting pictures of naked underage anime characters. There have a…

I can't offer the link (reddit is blocked on my computer :D ) but the WAKE UP SHEEPLE guy was one of the best and most useful trolls I have ever seen. Look for his "good bye" post - the guy was way over the average, and not just as a troll.

Re: Trent Reznor Quits Web 2.0, Offers Cutting Advice To Haters

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your life and circumstance may allow for this, others don't. :)

In some cases anonymous expression is preferable to no expression, in others anonymous expression is not preferable over silence.

In some countries you lose your life for "standing by your identity," in others you don't.

http://iranianminorityshumanright.blogspot.com/2009/03/repor...

Re: Trent Reznor Quits Web 2.0, Offers Cutting Advice To Haters

#36
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Specifically, on the Internet , when AOL got a Usenet gateway. No-one cared when they stayed within AOL, not least because AOL had moderators. The real Internet is not HN, it's not Facebook or Livejournal. It's 4chan and the comments on Youtube. That's what we built, that's the glorious future, the pinnacle of high tech, the global collective consciousness. How proud should we be?

Honestly, 4chan just reminds me of alt.* in Septembers. I'm not a regular visitor, but at least 4chan doesn't pretend to be anything other than the filthy underbelly of the net, and the community there has both a sense of humor about itself and genuinely likes kittehs...plus it has the merit of being funny if you're willing to accept the possibility of being offended. What's really depressing to me is going to visit…

4chan vs. Trent Reznor would be an epic, and (I suspect) enjoyable challenge for both sides.

Re: Trent Reznor Quits Web 2.0, Offers Cutting Advice To Haters

#37

One thought after reading this: Troll filtering is a big, wide open market.

I've been thinking about this for a while. What it needs is shareable trust networks, so you can see ratings weighted by the votes of those who you particularly approve of or despise. Attempts at objective moderation just end up creating echo chambers and/or popularity contests. I have discovered a truly marvelous proof of this, which this thread is too small to contain...but I am making notes to write it up in some…

Yes, I've wondered about something like that for a while, myself:

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=467574

Re: Trent Reznor Quits Web 2.0, Offers Cutting Advice To Haters

#39
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite right, and that's got a lot to do with NIN's style of music. You wouldn't expect Lionel Ritchie to experience the same thing if he emulated Reznor online. He'd probably get some middle-aged air-heads but no suicidal mischief-makers.

You wouldn't expect Lionel Ritchie to experience the same thing if he emulated Reznor online. Well, having been on the receiving end of something I thought I'd share my experience. There are raving lunatic fans all around the place, regardless of what genre the artists are in. During the campaign to get Rick Astley voted as Best Act Ever for last years MTV Europe Music Awards, I started receiving large volumes of hat…

Mark, how come your blog's empty? Something to do with those fans?

Re: Trent Reznor Quits Web 2.0, Offers Cutting Advice To Haters

#40
Interestingly, the only troll-less social places on the internet are those who are started by, and frequented by a "guru" who everyone respects. I visit a handful of such places for different subject areas and they are completely different than the majority of the internet.
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