Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Lavabit SSL Cert Revoked

lavabit.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 321 posts

Re: Lavabit SSL Cert Revoked

#121

Post by davidp »

scott_karana wrote: post #45
interstitial wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And our contribution becomes part of our "permanent record" with the NSA? So glad I'm a US citizen and need not fear about such things.

That just sounds like fearmongering. I can't see any way that helping to fund someone's court case can be considering a crime, even if he were completely in the wrong. I strongly suspect that there are favourable legal precedents, even.

It doesn't have to be illegal for it to be a weapon in the wrong hands.

"Are you now, or have you ever been, a member of the Lavabit Party?" [1]

"Your Honor, respected members of the jury: In 2013 Mr. Karana donated funds to an organization known to be in collusion with terrorists, as designated by the State Department and the Department of Homeland Security. He is by no means an 'innocent man' as he claims in this trial." [2]

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mccarthyism

[2] Assume a trial in 2025 completely unrelated to this topic, with the Terrorist Sympathizer designation coming in 2023 after the leadership of the fundraising organization was taken over by people you've never heard of.

(edited for formatting and grammar)

Re: Lavabit SSL Cert Revoked

#122

Post by thangalin »

gregw134 wrote: post #108
thangalin wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like this, especially because it means votes become more valuable. Consider, too, that the system is self-referential. You could use the system to debate the relative merits of vote and comment limits, for example.

I agree that there might be some issues with comment limits--you don't want to limit discussion too much. On a different topic, why do you think this system should be anonymous? You can't limit votes unless you can authenticate someone's identity, and the best way to prove that users are real is to show who each user is.

Corruption is only possible when you know who to bribe. By making the system completely anonymous, bribery becomes extraordinarily difficult, if not impossible.

Further, all ideas should receive equal consideration. Attaching names allows for group-think and bribery. (Imagine if Neil deGrasse Tyson posted a policy, or Neil Patrick Harris, or Neil Young.) Ideas must stand on their own merit, not on the reputation or wealth of the person who conceived the idea.

Re: Lavabit SSL Cert Revoked

#123

Post by znowi »

l33tbro wrote: post #37

I'm so sick of being sickened. I hate that this is becoming the norm and we can't do anything about it. I hate to spit cliches, but is this where my tax dollars go? For me, govt and internet should almost be like church and state. Where is the data around foiled terrorist plots? I just can't stomach the obtuse logic that we need to pay our taxes to employ these virtual minders. This is not what the internet is about.…

What makes me incredibly sad in all this is the reaction of people. Specifically, Americans. I'm used to see this nation as the pinnacle of free spirit and liberty. Bold, fearless, freedom loving culture that will not tolerate any encroachment upon their rights and freedoms.

I can't see any of it. People are either indifferent or compliant. A few protests here and there that amount to nothing on the nation's scale. This is all despite the immense uproar in the press and media worldwide. What's worse, those few brave souls who dare to stand up against the injustice become social outcasts.

I guess these days people would have given up Robin Hood to the sheriff for a few gold coins and a promise of security. Or perhaps they already did.

Re: Lavabit SSL Cert Revoked

#124

Post by chris_mahan »

shocks wrote: post #48
powertower wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No.

This is exactly the point he was trying to make...

No, that's not the point I was trying to make. The people in Washington D.C. that sit in fancy leather chairs have repeatedly demonstrated their lack of critical thinking skills, so I use terribly bad sarcasm to illustrate what their puny brains will think of next.

Re: Lavabit SSL Cert Revoked

#125

Post by [deleted] »

[deleted] wrote: post #116
gregw134 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love the idea, but I don't think people should be allowed to have unlimited up or down votes. That would encourage whimsical opinions, and would make the site reflect the opinions of the most active and opinionated users instead of the average person. I think there needs to be a way to limit the voice of each user so each person has the same amount of influence. One idea I like is to give each user 100 points to di…

[deleted]

[deleted]

Re: Lavabit SSL Cert Revoked

#126

Post by orblivion »

brian_cloutier wrote: post #63

Lavabit has revealed something incredibly important. The US Government has no problem with seizing your private keys . It claims the right to impersonate you without your permission. It no longer matters which system you use, Sovereign Keys, PGP web-of-trust, traditional PKI, they're all the same. Services based in the US can be MITM'd without leaving any traces. If this is allowed to continue uncontested there will…

Explain to me how a PGP web-of-trust can be MITM'd? Presumably you exchange keys in person?

Re: Lavabit SSL Cert Revoked

#127

Post by gregw134 »

thangalin wrote: post #122
gregw134 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that there might be some issues with comment limits--you don't want to limit discussion too much. On a different topic, why do you think this system should be anonymous? You can't limit votes unless you can authenticate someone's identity, and the best way to prove that users are real is to show who each user is.

Corruption is only possible when you know who to bribe. By making the system completely anonymous, bribery becomes extraordinarily difficult, if not impossible. Further, all ideas should receive equal consideration. Attaching names allows for group-think and bribery. (Imagine if Neil deGrasse Tyson posted a policy, or Neil Patrick Harris, or Neil Young.) Ideas must stand on their own merit, not on the reputation or w…

I'm not sure I understand your point about bribery. Are you talking about bribing groups of people to vote a particular way, or about bribing coercing powerful individuals not to express their opinions?

I disagree in practice that all ideas should have equal consideration. If an economist or other professional has a proposal, I think its practical to recognize that that person has extra credibility on a topic, and I don't see why we shouldn't let the public see that person's reputation. Professionals have an incentive not to state false claims--if the do so, especially in an internet forum board, they would be called out and their reputations would suffer.

On the other hand, there needs to be some anonymity to protect people from real life abuse. Do you see any problem with the option of anonymity?

Re: Lavabit SSL Cert Revoked

#128

Post by brymaster »

l33tbro wrote: post #37

I'm so sick of being sickened. I hate that this is becoming the norm and we can't do anything about it. I hate to spit cliches, but is this where my tax dollars go? For me, govt and internet should almost be like church and state. Where is the data around foiled terrorist plots? I just can't stomach the obtuse logic that we need to pay our taxes to employ these virtual minders. This is not what the internet is about.…

> Where is the data around foiled terrorist plots?

Luckily some Senators have recognized that meme as bullshit:

“For example, we’ve heard over and over again that 54 terrorist plots have been thwarted by the use of (this program),” Leahy said.

“That’s plainly wrong,” the senator said. “These weren’t all plots and they weren’t all thwarted.”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcHdAoSUz9g

Re: Lavabit SSL Cert Revoked

#129

Post by aianus »

orblivion wrote: post #126
brian_cloutier wrote: post #63

Lavabit has revealed something incredibly important. The US Government has no problem with seizing your private keys . It claims the right to impersonate you without your permission. It no longer matters which system you use, Sovereign Keys, PGP web-of-trust, traditional PKI, they're all the same. Services based in the US can be MITM'd without leaving any traces. If this is allowed to continue uncontested there will…

Explain to me how a PGP web-of-trust can be MITM'd? Presumably you exchange keys in person?

The govt coerces somebody you trust (either directly or through the web of trust) to hand over their private keys and then begins impersonating them.

Re: Lavabit SSL Cert Revoked

#130

Post by knappe »

interstitial wrote: post #40
rebelidealist wrote: post #35

Consider donating to https://rally.org/lavabit . Lavabit needs at least 250k to continue fighting in the supreme court. See his last update on the rally page.

And our contribution becomes part of our "permanent record" with the NSA? So glad I'm a US citizen and need not fear about such things.

I had the same reservations. But you know what? Fuck it. I'm so tired of this bullshit that I'm more than willing to take the risk at this point. This angers me to no end.

Donation complete.

Post reply on HN