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Lavabit SSL Cert Revoked

lavabit.com

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Re: Lavabit SSL Cert Revoked

#91

Post by sixothree »

notdonspaulding wrote: post #66
shmerl wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When did unconstitutional massive surveillance become justice?

The same day that everyone agreed "Roadside Safety Checks" (police looking for drunk drivers under the auspices of checking children's carseats at 1AM) was the lesser of two evils (Drunk drivers killing innocent people is a greater evil than everyone's 4th amendment rights being violated). To a lesser extent, anytime that politicians frame an issue with the two phrases "it's for the good of the public" and "it's not…

I'm hoping driverless cars begin to make people realize how intrusive these types of stops really are.

Re: Lavabit SSL Cert Revoked

#92

Post by Zoepfli »

quadlock wrote: post #61
mpyne wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting link, and much more informative than the other Lavabit news articles. It's a shame the government didn't work with Levison to either allow Levison to add the requested intercept himself (which, yes, would have required Uncle Sam to trust him) or to allow a third-party (or even a third party requested from both sides) to audit the proposed interception code. The judge is correct in stating that if Levison…

> The judge is correct in stating that if Levison doesn't trust the government, then why should the government trust Levison The judge is incorrect. The U.S. Government was designed to not completely trust itself. That's why there are checks and balances. Giving the FBI the private key lets them have unchecked access to data encrypted with it. It is wrong to asked to not be checked. [edited for format]

Also, we have ample proof that the US Government cannot be trusted period. An entity that cannot be trusted can still reflect on itself, realize it has done lots of wrongs, and trust others that are reaching for higher standards.

Re: Lavabit SSL Cert Revoked

#93

Post by rayiner »

l33tbro wrote: post #37

I'm so sick of being sickened. I hate that this is becoming the norm and we can't do anything about it. I hate to spit cliches, but is this where my tax dollars go? For me, govt and internet should almost be like church and state. Where is the data around foiled terrorist plots? I just can't stomach the obtuse logic that we need to pay our taxes to employ these virtual minders. This is not what the internet is about.…

The basic problem is an impedance mismatch. Some people see the internet as this noble grand thing (like you, comparing it to the church). The government, like most voters, sees it as just a place to look at cat pictures and buy crap on zappos. The government treats the internet like it treats meat space things. Nobody complains that they can Public Storage to open storage units with a warrant, so why should the internet be treated any differently?

That impedance mismatch will take a long time to reconcile. If the Facebook generation is any indication, it will probably never be reconciled to your taste.

What I'm trying to say is: get used to being an intellectual minority. You're joining the company of lots of people, from those who think the government has no business forcing you to save for retirement to those who think the government has no business forcing you to serve or hire certain people in your private establishment. You probably agree with some of those people and disagree vehemently with others.

Re: Lavabit SSL Cert Revoked

#96

Post by joe_the_user »

mpyne wrote: post #43
miketucker wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Today the owner, Ladar Levison, had to hand over the SSL certificates by court order. It marks the ending of a long battle in court, with unfortunately it ending in the govenment's favor. I'm assuming the post is just a hacker way of acknowledging the event. Related article: http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/elements/2013/10/how-l...

Interesting link, and much more informative than the other Lavabit news articles. It's a shame the government didn't work with Levison to either allow Levison to add the requested intercept himself (which, yes, would have required Uncle Sam to trust him) or to allow a third-party (or even a third party requested from both sides) to audit the proposed interception code. The judge is correct in stating that if Levison…

"It's a shame the government didn't work with Levison to either allow Levison to add the requested intercept himself (which, yes, would have required Uncle Sam to trust him) or to allow a third-party (or even a third party requested from both sides) to audit the proposed interception code."

No - it is a plan that the government doesn't work with service provider and instead demands data and intercepts that "just happen" to let them spy on an entire network.

Indeed, everything Edward Snowden has revealed points this being the plan, the modus operandi of the state everywhere. It has an official right a few reasonable seeming things and executes that right in a way that gives it the potential for anything and everything.

And it can all just look like a "shame", a mistake, "an example of how the government doesn't understand the Internet", etc.

Re: Lavabit SSL Cert Revoked

#97

Post by interstitial »

fantnn wrote: post #72
thangalin wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have mocked-up a system for policy creation. The project is open; please contribute your thoughts. People say "it has flaws" but never explain the flaws, nor how to address them. https://bitbucket.org/djarvis/world-politics/ Would greatly appreciate constructive criticism. The system serves to educate everyone (openly and transparently) on implications of existing and upcoming policies. If the idea intrigues you, c…

Opinions vs. Facts The community should be encouraged to favour facts over opinions. Er, this is one of the largest problems facing Democracy since it was invented millenia ago. Look at the current American government shutdown, and the way Republicans have managed to frame the debate using empty rhetoric, when in reality both the debt ceiling and government spending are currently not an issue http://delong.typepad.co…

You'd be surprised that ignorant deadmen once consider the same issues and felt an adversarial system was the best solution at the time. Today with the aid of the internet we know better. We should simple censure and imprison dissent and not bother with it at all.

Re: Lavabit SSL Cert Revoked

#98

Post by joe_the_user »

brian_cloutier wrote: post #63

Lavabit has revealed something incredibly important. The US Government has no problem with seizing your private keys . It claims the right to impersonate you without your permission. It no longer matters which system you use, Sovereign Keys, PGP web-of-trust, traditional PKI, they're all the same. Services based in the US can be MITM'd without leaving any traces. If this is allowed to continue uncontested there will…

Well, we knew the US government didn't mind seizing whatever under some circumstances.

What we know specifically now is that the government is inclined to "err" on the side of taking everything to the point that it would take your private SSL keys if it happen to get a warrant for your shopping list. The state has generally arrogated itself similar powers in physical searches so the news is that it just gets worse with data searches.

Re: Lavabit SSL Cert Revoked

#99

Post by gregw134 »

thangalin wrote: post #51
l33tbro wrote: post #37

I'm so sick of being sickened. I hate that this is becoming the norm and we can't do anything about it. I hate to spit cliches, but is this where my tax dollars go? For me, govt and internet should almost be like church and state. Where is the data around foiled terrorist plots? I just can't stomach the obtuse logic that we need to pay our taxes to employ these virtual minders. This is not what the internet is about.…

I have mocked-up a system for policy creation. The project is open; please contribute your thoughts. People say "it has flaws" but never explain the flaws, nor how to address them. https://bitbucket.org/djarvis/world-politics/ Would greatly appreciate constructive criticism. The system serves to educate everyone (openly and transparently) on implications of existing and upcoming policies. If the idea intrigues you, c…

I love the idea, but I don't think people should be allowed to have unlimited up or down votes. That would encourage whimsical opinions, and would make the site reflect the opinions of the most active and opinionated users instead of the average person. I think there needs to be a way to limit the voice of each user so each person has the same amount of influence.

One idea I like is to give each user 100 points to distribute among topics. Once the user has assigned a certain number of points for or against a position, they could then distribute those points amongst the comments that best represent their position. So if a user votes 20 points for gun control, gun control would get 20 points, and the user would have to choose which comments best support their position--5 points to this comment, 7 points for this comment, etc.

I think this would solve two problems: it would encourage thoughtful opinions to rise to the top, and it would give voice to the minority of voters that care passionately about a topic that the majority disagrees with or doesn't care about.

Re: Lavabit SSL Cert Revoked

#100

Post by interstitial »

quadlock wrote: post #61
mpyne wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting link, and much more informative than the other Lavabit news articles. It's a shame the government didn't work with Levison to either allow Levison to add the requested intercept himself (which, yes, would have required Uncle Sam to trust him) or to allow a third-party (or even a third party requested from both sides) to audit the proposed interception code. The judge is correct in stating that if Levison…

> The judge is correct in stating that if Levison doesn't trust the government, then why should the government trust Levison The judge is incorrect. The U.S. Government was designed to not completely trust itself. That's why there are checks and balances. Giving the FBI the private key lets them have unchecked access to data encrypted with it. It is wrong to asked to not be checked. [edited for format]

Checks and balances are passe. They are the antiquated notions of dead men. With computers and the internet ensuring the proper administration of justice via self-appointed and self-reviewed secret committees, we can finally live in peace and security.
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