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Swiss to vote on 2,500 franc basic income for every adult

reuters.com

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Re: Swiss to vote on 2,500 franc basic income for every adult

#61

Post by DrewRWx »

ojii wrote: post #40
JDDunn9 wrote: post #36

A country that values science, education, peace AND cares about the poor! Have I stepped into another dimension?

You forgot democracy. Note that this bill was introduced by the people, not the government. In Switzerland, as long as you can get 100'000 to sign a referendum, you can get a bill to be voted on. We also vote 4 times a year on bills, that is we the people, not we the politicians.

Meanwhile in California it is easier for corporate lobbyists to pass bills through the proposition system than it is to go through congress.

Re: Swiss to vote on 2,500 franc basic income for every adult

#62

Post by riffraff »

psuter wrote: post #44
pyritschard wrote: post #35

I think it's worth explaining how swiss legislation works. There are several ways to propose a new law, one of which is for enough citizens to petition, which leads to a referendum style vote. The basic income vote followed this process, and though it gathered enough interest to warrant people voting on it, it has little chance of passing. Interestingly a similar vote recently passed which limited the income in a com…

The 1:12 project is at the same stage as the basic income one: up for referendum. Latest polls showed people were still undecided (vote is at the end of November).

I was under the impression the 1:12 vote already happened and was voted with an overwhelming majority, e.g.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21647937

http://www.economist.com/blogs/schumpeter/2013/03/switzerlan...

Could you explain the discrepancy ?

Re: Swiss to vote on 2,500 franc basic income for every adult

#63

Post by arjie »

rickjames28 wrote: post #15

go for it. and let's see the extrapolation to a economic juggernaut like the U.S. It's always the "norway" argument. If Norway (pop 4 million or so) can do it so can the U.S. Yes, I guess Los Angeles could do something like that, but..

Not that I specifically care for that argument, but half of American states have lower population than Norway. Choosing to say "I guess Los Angeles could do it" may have a better ring to it than "I guess Colorado or Alabama or South Carolina or Louisiana or Kentucky or Oregon or Oklahoma or Connecticut or Iowa or Mississippi or Arkansas or Kansas or Utah or Nevada and New Mexico together or Nebraska and West Virginia and Idaho together or Hawaii, Maine, New Hampshire, and Rhode Island together or Montana, Delaware, the Dakotas, Alaska, Vermont, and Wyoming together could do something like that", but it makes the US look like it has a lot more people than it does.

Now before anyone comes up with "population isn't everything", that's the problem parent decided to mention.

Re: Swiss to vote on 2,500 franc basic income for every adult

#64

Post by drob »

tikhonj wrote: post #2

A Swiss franc is currently worth a little bit more than a dollar, so this works out to $2800/month or $33600/year. By US standards, this actually seems to be a good salary: significantly better than working full time at minimum wage. It would cover all my current expenses handily. Of course, I'm young and single but by no means frugal. (I find that the little costs involved in worrying about my expenses easily outwei…

Not to mention this does away with all the administrative overhead of the dozens of piecemeal welfare programs we have in the US. Rather than whitelisting narrow sets of allowed expenditures and making people prove that they're poor for each program, I suspect giving people an income that allows them to live decently without all the red tape and attached strings will make for a much more efficient way to fight poverty and improve quality of life.

That said, I don't think a basic income experiment with a successful outcome would cause us to take the notion seriously in the US.

Portugal's decriminalization of drugs in 2001 comes to mind. By all accounts, it was a great success, which we've largely ignored. The dozens of countries with single-payer health care systems that deliver better care for far less money are another regrettable example.

Here's hoping Switzerland undertakes what looks to be a fascinating experiment.

Re: Swiss to vote on 2,500 franc basic income for every adult

#65

Post by rmoriz »

FYI: You have to live 12 years consecutively in Switzerland, pass a tests and a personal hearing done by the local government to get a citizenship by naturalization.

Switzerland has one of the most strict immigration rules in Europe.

Source: http://www.bfm.admin.ch/content/bfm/en/home/themen/buergerre...

Re: Swiss to vote on 2,500 franc basic income for every adult

#66

Post by cabalamat »

wavesounds wrote: post #31
Daniel_Newby wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not an appropriate venue for chanting political slogans.

I stated a 100% true fact that is a direct comparison to the article in question. It's sad people would try to silence facts by dismissing them as 'political slogans'

No-one is trying to silence you. But what you said is off-topic for the subject under question. I probably agree with your political sympathies; but I don't think you should have said it here.

Re: Swiss to vote on 2,500 franc basic income for every adult

#67

Post by wavesounds »

CrankyPants wrote: post #45
wavesounds wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I stated a 100% true fact that is a direct comparison to the article in question. It's sad people would try to silence facts by dismissing them as 'political slogans'

Meh, it's your view. There are plenty of people who oppose PPACA for reasons besides trying to stop poor people from receiving subsidies on their health insurance.

Listen to Boheners reasoning when he refused to allow a vote on the senate bill[1]. He sites employers not wanting to hire people because they have to subsidize their insurance, and a medical device tax that goes towards providing subsidies to individuals. 1. http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/153432/Speaker_John_...

Re: Swiss to vote on 2,500 franc basic income for every adult

#68

Post by Ecio78 »

ashray wrote: post #4
tikhonj wrote: post #2

A Swiss franc is currently worth a little bit more than a dollar, so this works out to $2800/month or $33600/year. By US standards, this actually seems to be a good salary: significantly better than working full time at minimum wage. It would cover all my current expenses handily. Of course, I'm young and single but by no means frugal. (I find that the little costs involved in worrying about my expenses easily outwei…

Just bear in mind for your calculations that in Switzerland a cup of coffee often costs $6 as does a can of coke. Cost of living is extremely high. But still, this does look like a decent deal. Zurich is like San Francisco in terms of expenses.

You can compare the cost of living in the two cities using numbeo (posted here some months ago) http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?coun...

Re: Swiss to vote on 2,500 franc basic income for every adult

#69

Post by arjie »

robomartin wrote: post #23
jrockway wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People always want more, so this will allow people to live comfortably while they, for example, acquire a more profitable skill than what they currently have. Then they will earn more, and pay more taxes, and the cycle continues. Alternatively, the Swiss government may have enough money to invest it all and pay for this out of dividends. Just because the US is broke doesn't mean that everyone is.

> this will allow people to live comfortably while they, for example, acquire a more profitable skill than what they currently have. Maybe some of them. If American welfare is any indications you'll have generations of people who will live within this free money system, do nothing, learn nothing and demand more and more over time. They will all have iPhones, huge flat screen TV's and never work a day in their lives.…

Do you remember where you read that most people on welfare in the US live with expensive hardware but do little work? I'm curious about different ways of providing welfare and the behaviour of people w under each.

Re: Swiss to vote on 2,500 franc basic income for every adult

#70

Post by cabalamat »

crygin wrote: post #34
Daniel_Newby wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not an appropriate venue for chanting political slogans.

The GP is not a "political slogan", it's a statement of fact. If you'd like to rebut, which seems fairly unlikely, please provide both evidence of sloganhood (slogan, of course, means something specific: in part, that the aforementioned phrase has been used verbatim as a form of promotion. Cite the promotion) and additionally an actual rebuttal to the GP. That would actually be what this is an appropriate venue for,…

> The GP is not a "political slogan", it's a statement of fact.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

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