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Show HN: govuptime.com

govuptime.com

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Re: Show HN: govuptime.com

#81

Post by aaronblohowiak »

bithive123 wrote: post #67

Metrics are cool and all, but this glosses over the really important story here, which unfortunately seems to elude much of the general public: that a small minority of republicans are subverting the budget process because they don't like a law. They cannot be allowed to do this. I can only assume the rest of the RNC is going along with it because they are stupid or cowards.

>I can only assume the rest of the RNC is going along with it because they are stupid or cowards

They are not stupid; they are self-interested.

With gerrymandering making many seats stable in terms of which party will win, the competition then comes from within the party; moderate GOPs face competition from the far right. If they don't tow the line, they risk losing their power. This is the end-game of gerrymandering playing out.

Rubio is the coward of the hour: http://www.nationaljournal.com/daily/what-happened-to-marco-...

Re: Show HN: govuptime.com

#82

Post by _7fvc »

nextstep wrote: post #61

It would be cool if on the bar chart the two bars for each agency could be combined; make the furloughed employees in blue and show the rest of the agency in grey-blue or something like that, so it more visually shows how the agencies are diminished.

The best way to visualize this I think is with pie chart. I made one here:

http://vida.io/discussion/WgBMc4zDWF7YpqXGR

Re: Show HN: govuptime.com

#83

Post by _7fvc »

thatrailsguy wrote: post #51
dandelany wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! If anyone is interested in my data, there's a CSV & JSON in the github and the shared Google Doc is here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AsyXWqYXia4PdGl... Looks pretty similar to yours, mostly... Mine is less-complete at the moment but also tries to break some agencies down by sub-agency (eg. IRS-specific stats within the Dept. of Treasury). If anyone would like to contribute, let me know and I…

I talked to dvito, he said he compiled it by hand, so he might incorporate your data into ours.

Thanks for the data. Any idea where to get $ of salary not being paid to each department.

Re: Show HN: govuptime.com

#84

Post by bmelton »

VladRussian2 wrote: post #38
javert wrote: post #33

The federal government is operational, so the text at the top of the page is politically dishonest. We still have a federal government that is taking care of national defense, among a number of other things. "Non-essential" services have been suspended, while "essential" are still operational. Frankly, I'd like it if it stayed this way. The government shouldn't tax-and-force in "non-essential" areas.

>Frankly, I'd like it if it stayed this way. The government shouldn't tax-and-force in "non-essential" areas. you must be kidding. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/2/irs-collectin... "IRS collecting money but not sending tax refunds during shutdown"

That's just due to the politicization of the shutdown. The Executive has actually taken great pains to make things as inconvenient as possible for the citizenry, to ensure that they get the message that government is necessary to their daily lives, whether it would otherwise impact them or not.

Websites are shut down, but not like, in a way that would save any actual money. Instead of turning the servers off, they're serving up error pages carping about the shutdown, which takes power, bandwidth, etc. Also, of course, those pages had to be modified, which given how dispersed federal webservers are, was far more than a single search-and-replace effort.

Moreover, freestanding monuments are closed. These monuments don't require daily staff, y'know, cause they're just buildings, or walls in many cases, but instead of not manning them (which would be free), we're sending dozens of guards to keep people out of a place that ordinarily requires no staff. On top of that, at least in DC, they're renting barricades and pasting them with signs carping about the shutdown. In some cases, we've even tried to close parks that weren't affected, like when the Feds tried to shut down Mount Vernon, which is operated through private funds.

On top of that, there are essential persons in place and on duty that the executive branch has instructed not to do their jobs... Border Patrol, for example, has been instructed to "just let anybody through", despite their roles being considered essential.

Edit, for clarity, I was in debate mode, and did not intend to imply that the shutdown does not have negative effects. I've worked in the federal government, and have federal customers currently, live in the DC area, and am well aware of the pain that some are feeling. That said, the Executive Branch has specifically gone out of their way to make that pain even more acute.

Re: Show HN: govuptime.com

#85

Post by dinkumthinkum »

javert wrote: post #33

The federal government is operational, so the text at the top of the page is politically dishonest. We still have a federal government that is taking care of national defense, among a number of other things. "Non-essential" services have been suspended, while "essential" are still operational. Frankly, I'd like it if it stayed this way. The government shouldn't tax-and-force in "non-essential" areas.

Well that's just a very particular, narrow, Tea Party, simplistic mindset. In reality, it is a shutdown. You can spin it but that's all you're really doing. There nothing interesting in this attempt at pedantry, not to be mean, just being honest.

Re: Show HN: govuptime.com

#86

Post by mwsherman »

This is a misleading dataviz, I’m afraid. There are around 4 million federal personnel, of which 800k are furloughed, which means the government is running at 80%.

So, at the very least, ‘Is the federal government operational?’ should be 0.8 instead of zero (aka, ‘no’). I would also expect the ‘service level’ calculator to reflect this.

Update, citation from US Office of Personnel Mgmt: http://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/data-analysis-docum...

Re: Show HN: govuptime.com

#87

Post by bcoates »

CodeMage wrote: post #48
javert wrote: post #33

The federal government is operational, so the text at the top of the page is politically dishonest. We still have a federal government that is taking care of national defense, among a number of other things. "Non-essential" services have been suspended, while "essential" are still operational. Frankly, I'd like it if it stayed this way. The government shouldn't tax-and-force in "non-essential" areas.

Why, no, I don't really need to get an SSN, but thank you for asking! I guess it's not really essential to me and my family... [1] Seriously, though, why are people popping up like mushrooms saying how it would be much better to get rid of stuff the government currently does, without proposing to actually replace it with something ? I recommend reading Yegge's "Have you ever legalized marijuana?" [2] [1]: http://www.…

I would greatly prefer not to have a SSN as long as I wasn't the only one.

That essay's factual assertions were disproven by later events in Colorado where a chaotic and mostly unplanned transition (which neglected to come up with solid answers to any of stevey's questions) towards mostly-legalization went down without any serious consequences.

As it turns out, it really is as easy as saying "whatever, just do it now" and answering every hypothetical issue with "if that actually happens, we'll deal with it when it happens". The demons the government is protecting us from don't actually exist.

Re: Show HN: govuptime.com

#89

Post by dragonwriter »

bmelton wrote: post #80
bithive123 wrote: post #67

Metrics are cool and all, but this glosses over the really important story here, which unfortunately seems to elude much of the general public: that a small minority of republicans are subverting the budget process because they don't like a law. They cannot be allowed to do this. I can only assume the rest of the RNC is going along with it because they are stupid or cowards.

> a small minority of republicans are subverting the budget process because they don't like a law So, not to get into a partisan argument (because I'm not a Republican), but the Supreme Court battle for the individual mandate imposed by the ACA circumvented the House's budgetary authority here, and that's why we're log-jammed at the moment. The Constitution prescribes that all spending bills must originate in the Hou…

> So, not to get into a partisan argument (because I'm not a Republican), but the Supreme Court battle for the individual mandate imposed by the ACA circumvented the House's budgetary authority here, and that's why we're log-jammed at the moment.

This is simply false.

> The Constitution prescribes that all spending bills must originate in the House.

Presumably, you mean tax bills, as saying this of spending bills would both be wrong and irrelevant to the issue at hand.

> The ACA originally imposed fees, but as the Supreme Court challenge (NFIB v Sebelius) declared imposing fees would be unconstitutional, but that could be easily circumvented by imposing the fees as a tax, for which Congress has authority.

No, NFIB v. Sebelius [1] upheld the individual mandate as a valid exercise of Congress' taxing power.

It did not strike down a "fee" in the law and say that that "could be easily circumvented" by imposing a tax to replace the fee, as you suggest.

> In that process though, taxes are at the discretion of the House, and the Senate ignored that

No, as noted, tax bills must originate in the House, they are not at the discretion of the House. And, in any case, that's all irrelevant, since, contrary to your mischaracterization, the Supreme Court didn't strike down the PPACA individual mandate and invite Congress to replace it with a tax, it found that it was valid as a tax.

[1] http://www2.bloomberglaw.com/public/desktop/document/Natl_Fe...

Re: Show HN: govuptime.com

#90

Post by bmelton »

dragonwriter wrote: post #89
bmelton wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a small minority of republicans are subverting the budget process because they don't like a law So, not to get into a partisan argument (because I'm not a Republican), but the Supreme Court battle for the individual mandate imposed by the ACA circumvented the House's budgetary authority here, and that's why we're log-jammed at the moment. The Constitution prescribes that all spending bills must originate in the Hou…

> So, not to get into a partisan argument (because I'm not a Republican), but the Supreme Court battle for the individual mandate imposed by the ACA circumvented the House's budgetary authority here, and that's why we're log-jammed at the moment. This is simply false. > The Constitution prescribes that all spending bills must originate in the House. Presumably, you mean tax bills, as saying this of spending bills wou…

It was not originally presented as a tax, but as fees, Justice Roberts' categorization of the fee as a tax was the first time that had happened.

Beyond that, yes, I did conflate spending and taxation, but both taxes are indeed at the discretion of the House, or we wouldn't have the impasse that we currently do.

Regardless, my point remains that either the Democratically controlled Senate or the Republican controlled House could reopen the government today with a simple vote, and I cannot fault Boehner or Reid for being just as obstinate as the other, when both are clearly being equally bull-headed.

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