Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Melatonin

gwern.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 229 posts

Re: Melatonin

#141

Post by KVFinn »

ChristianMarks wrote: post #114

Gwern comes close to suggesting filtering blue light, but I will repeat a previous post. I've tried melatonin, but it is no substitute for for filtering blue light in my experience, and it tends to induce horrific, apocalyptic nightmares (granted, a night dreaming of EAS Emergency Action Notifications is better than no sleep at all). I used to be an owl for years--decades. A regular 9-5 schedule seemed out of reach.…

I'll echo this, I had similar results restricting blue light.

What clued me in was when I went camping for a weekend after not camping for almost a decade. I found myself falling asleep and waking early, feeling better, even after a single night, and it got even better the second. Real darkness after sunset, and tons of bright sunlight in the morning.

Wearing the goggles IS a pain though. Worth it but a pain. F.lux didn't do nearly enough in my experience though it does seem to have an effect.

I also find that sunrise simulator clock is okay for waking up but not strong enough to replace bright light exposure in the morning. I would recommend eating breakfast outside in the sun for awhile, and if you find that helps, get some lights with some heavy duty lux for the winter mornings inside.

Re: Melatonin

#142

Post by afterburner »

ChikkaChiChi wrote: post #18

The problem with a lack of FDA regulation is that there is no guarantee on what you are taking. The freshness of the product and the veracity of what's in the pills will always be suspect to me. If I could trust where I get my melatonin from, I would gladly take it. But I've learned too much about how terrible this industry is.

True. A doctor recommended Jamieson.

Re: Melatonin

#143

Post by avtar »

tedks wrote: post #127
ChristianMarks wrote: post #114

Gwern comes close to suggesting filtering blue light, but I will repeat a previous post. I've tried melatonin, but it is no substitute for for filtering blue light in my experience, and it tends to induce horrific, apocalyptic nightmares (granted, a night dreaming of EAS Emergency Action Notifications is better than no sleep at all). I used to be an owl for years--decades. A regular 9-5 schedule seemed out of reach.…

> it tends to induce horrific, apocalyptic nightmares I've used melatonin for years, as have many of my friends and family, and I've never had anyone mention this. I've always had more vivid dreams with melatonin, but I've never had nightmares.

I've attended a few week long meditation retreats where you generally have to adhere to the schedule laid out for you; that includes waking up early (~5:00AM) and going to bed early and also refraining from using anything that could be considered a distraction, namely computers, phones, etc. More often than not, a few days into a retreat I would start experiencing extremely vivid and violent dreams. One of my meditation teachers said that this tends to be a regular occurrence as the mind goes through a form of detox when it's deprived of stimuli. It was interesting to read about the parent's experience with melatonin and then be reminded of these episodes, with possible increased presence of melatonin and deep sleep states being the common factors.

Re: Melatonin

#144

Post by lgieron »

dcherman wrote: post #126
lgieron wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is generally not recommended to sleep in earplugs, as you're risking inducing a tinnitus. Basically everyone has some background noise in his ears/head, but it is ordinarily discarded (not brought to consciousness) by central nerve system as it's much quieter than external sounds - but if you cut them out, you're risking that your brain becomes aware of that sound and bam - suddenly you have tinnitus. And it may v…

Out of curiosity, do you have a source for this? I developed tinnitus last year and currently do wear earplugs while sleeping, however I certainly don't want to make it worse.

An audiologist told me that.

Re: Melatonin

#145

Post by nazgulnarsil »

jobu wrote: post #98

My youngest daughter is borderline ADHD, and rather than trying Ritalin we've been using Melatonin in the evenings to help ease the bedtime process. (In the hopes that more sleep will help her cope with problems focusing.) The change has been dramatic. Previously it was a 3-4 hour battle each night for her to get ready for bed and stay in bed. Now with 3mg of Melatonin she spontaneously decides to get ready for bed h…

Endogenous melatonin is in the realm of 5-25mcg, I've had great success supplementing 150mcg. Better results than with 3mg even. Consider trying a microdose.

Especially given that you are dealing with a developing brain and melatonin is a hormone.

Re: Melatonin

#146

Post by petercooper »

Melatonin is not easily obtainable here in the UK (as far as I know) so when I saw some in a regular store in the US, I grabbed some to try it.

And boy.. I usually have no trouble falling asleep except when travelling or otherwise "out of sync" so I tried it and I felt like I wanted to sleep almost constantly for two days. So it works, but perhaps a bit too well for me, even with a single tablet. Maybe I have an abundance of melatonin already coursing my veins? :-)

Re: Melatonin

#147

Post by nazgulnarsil »

jtheory wrote: post #14

I don't have personal experience with it; but my sleep schedule is horrible (I tend to stay up to 5am on alternate nights), so I may give it a try to enforce a normal bedtime, and kick the procrastination monster down a bit (if I don't have the option of doing the unpleasant work at 2am, it's far easier to force myself to do it during normal hours). But: see here, this is very relevant: http://hpmor.com/notes/98/ Sea…

yup. 150mcg makes me feel naturally sleepy around 3 hours later. I highly recommend experimenting with microdoses.

Re: Melatonin

#148

Post by Fishkins »

pstuart wrote: post #105
jobu wrote: post #98

My youngest daughter is borderline ADHD, and rather than trying Ritalin we've been using Melatonin in the evenings to help ease the bedtime process. (In the hopes that more sleep will help her cope with problems focusing.) The change has been dramatic. Previously it was a 3-4 hour battle each night for her to get ready for bed and stay in bed. Now with 3mg of Melatonin she spontaneously decides to get ready for bed h…

3mg might be too much. I am not a doctor, but my sleep doctor is, and she recommended half that amount -- right around sunset.

I remember reading in at least one study that there's no added benefit of doses above 1mg. I checked the "Brzezinski et al" article and it says:

  The dose response relationships in 11 of the studies 
  (see Refs. 17,18) support the existence of a plateau
  effect, with maximum effect generally being achieved
  at low doses (e.g. 0.3 mg) and maintained or 
  diminished at higher doses.

Re: Melatonin

#149

Post by sdrinf »

petercooper wrote: post #146

Melatonin is not easily obtainable here in the UK (as far as I know) so when I saw some in a regular store in the US, I grabbed some to try it. And boy.. I usually have no trouble falling asleep except when travelling or otherwise "out of sync" so I tried it and I felt like I wanted to sleep almost constantly for two days. So it works, but perhaps a bit too well for me, even with a single tablet. Maybe I have an abun…

Got mine from biovea.com (with a eurovital.com logo shrugs ) ; they seem to have no problem whatsoever about shipping to the UK. IIRC, it's widely available in many countries in the EU (specifically eg. Finland), who have no problem whatsoever about shipping it to countries where it's prescription-only.

Re: Melatonin

#150

Post by wissler »

pesenti wrote: post #51

Melatonin is a clear-cut Good Thing. The gains I have laid out are large enough I consider it irrational for someone not to use it. I consider it irrational for someone to believe that a limited number of hand-selected studies can give you absolute confidence.

To the extent that it may permanently inhibit natural melatonin production it is not a good thing. There are tradeoffs.
Post reply on HN