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Melatonin

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Re: Melatonin

#11

Post by DanBC »

There are some problems with Melatonin (as supplied) - you don't really know how much (if any) you're getting. Investigators found that quality control was very poor and some brands contained very little melatonin. (I can't find it now, but it was something like Consumer Reports or similar?)

It's a prescription only med in some places (UK) so you might not be able to get it.

But it is "remarkably effective"[1] for jet lag.

You might want to consider sleep hygiene[2] as well as (or instead of) melatonin or other sleep meds. (I really like zopiclone.)

[1] (http://summaries.cochrane.org/CD001520/melatonin-for-the-pre...)

[2] (http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Insomnia/Pages/Treatment.aspx)

Re: Melatonin

#12

Post by steveplace »

ChikkaChiChi wrote: post #9
da02 wrote: post #7

Why didn't you mention about the effects of a calcified pineal gland resulting from a Vitamin D and magnesium deficiency? Those are very common among the older folk, resulting in poor sleep quality, poor immune system, even increased chance of heart attacks.

...and how can this be fixed?

Take VitD + Fish Oil, then ZMA before bed.

Re: Melatonin

#13

Post by realitygrill »

I use melatonin regularly to regulate my sleep cycle. It's a very effective part of a regimen (sleep hygiene, f.lux, etc) that allows me to manage a nearly-decade long problem of insomnia.

However, from a psychological standpoint, it's a very good thing melatonin is so safe. Every single person I've ever recommended melatonin to, I've directed to this article and discussed it with them. Every single such person then went ahead to promptly forget the discussion, NOT read the article, and take mildly retarded doses. For example, "one (5mg) pill didn't work, so I took 8 more at 4am." Another uses it almost recreationally - large doses to intensify his dreams; pretty much zero attempt to use it to improve his sleep. I don't talk to people about melatonin anymore.

For a quicker idea of where melatonin sits vis-à-vis other sleep drugs (WARNING: Hilarious Ambien Walrus referenced): http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/09/28/sleep-now-by-prescripti...

Re: Melatonin

#14

Post by jtheory »

I don't have personal experience with it; but my sleep schedule is horrible (I tend to stay up to 5am on alternate nights), so I may give it a try to enforce a normal bedtime, and kick the procrastination monster down a bit (if I don't have the option of doing the unpleasant work at 2am, it's far easier to force myself to do it during normal hours).

But: see here, this is very relevant: http://hpmor.com/notes/98/

Search MetaMed (a few screens down) for Eliezer Yudkowsky's experience with a sleep disorder (his normal day is 24.5 hours): after spending years trying a whole laundry list of solutions including melatonin, he finally paid MetaMed somewhere north of $5K for their analysis, and got a solution using melatonin that worked (but was not the normal approach to melatonin supplementation).

"their best suggestion, although it had little or no clinical backing, was that I should take my low-dose melatonin 5-7 hours before bedtime, instead of 1-2 hours, a recommendation which I’d never heard anywhere before.

And it worked.

I can’t #&$ing believe that #$%ing worked.

(EDIT in response to reader questions: ”Low-dose” melatonin is 200microgram (mcg) = 0.2 mg. Currently I’m taking 0.2mg 5.5hr in advance, and taking 1mg timed-release just before closing my eyes to sleep. However, I worked up to that over time – I started out just taking 0.3mg total, and I would recommend to anyone else that they start at 0.2mg.)"

Re: Melatonin

#15

Post by vanderZwan »

DanBC wrote: post #11

There are some problems with Melatonin (as supplied) - you don't really know how much (if any) you're getting. Investigators found that quality control was very poor and some brands contained very little melatonin. (I can't find it now, but it was something like Consumer Reports or similar?) It's a prescription only med in some places (UK) so you might not be able to get it. But it is "remarkably effective"[1] for je…

The upside of being a prescription med is that you can expect it to have better quality control.

Re: Melatonin

#16

Post by snarfy »

It doesn't really make me fall asleep. It improves the quality of my sleep, making me wake up in the morning much easier.

Re: Melatonin

#17

Post by gregd »

It's my understanding that taking Melatonin supplements will mess up your bodies natural ability to make it's own Melatonin (as will taking a lot of supplements). You are far better off trying to get your body to produce Melatonin on it's own.

Re: Melatonin

#18

Post by ChikkaChiChi »

The problem with a lack of FDA regulation is that there is no guarantee on what you are taking. The freshness of the product and the veracity of what's in the pills will always be suspect to me.

If I could trust where I get my melatonin from, I would gladly take it. But I've learned too much about how terrible this industry is.

Re: Melatonin

#19

Post by jtheory »

gesman wrote: post #3

I works great when you have this "thinking in your sleep and wake up even more tired" syndrome. Melatonin related supplemements helps you relax quickly and really sleep deep. I personally found that taking 1/3 of recommended dose works perfectly. Taking full doze making me wake up in such a limb state - that it takes me literally one hour for muscles to get back into their ability to move the body. Another thing is t…

How much more deeply does it make you sleep? I have small children; I don't want to be difficult to wake.

Re: Melatonin

#20

Post by da02 »

ChikkaChiChi wrote: post #9
da02 wrote: post #7

Why didn't you mention about the effects of a calcified pineal gland resulting from a Vitamin D and magnesium deficiency? Those are very common among the older folk, resulting in poor sleep quality, poor immune system, even increased chance of heart attacks.

...and how can this be fixed?

5,000 - 10,000 i.u.: Vitamin D3 in the morning.

300 - 600 mg: magnesium citrate.

My favorite brand is "30 Minutes of Sunshine" http://www.lifespannutrition.com/lsn/products.asp?itemnumber... Bio-Tech Vitamin D3 is also very good: http://www.biotechpharmacal.com/

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