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The Hacker News Generation (Afraid of Hard Work)

simpleprogrammer.com

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Re: The Hacker News Generation (Afraid of Hard Work)

#91
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is priceless. And then: It doesn’t matter how brilliant you started out or how much faster you exited the gates than everyone else, those who consistently get up every morning and direct their energies along a single path, no matter how boring it may be, will eventually pass you on each of the many roads you haphazardly travel. That's not how life works. You can direct all your efforts to bending cutlery, but yo…

> The author may be a great programmer Really? He reads like a motivational speaker. What's he shipped? Where's his repo?

[deleted]

Re: The Hacker News Generation (Afraid of Hard Work)

#92
post #53
post #41

Somehow this article manages to be both wise and presumptuous. The points he makes speak from experience. It's a perspective that is too often ignored by younger generations: You can't always quit a job when the work gets boring -- sometimes you just have to push through the tedium if you want to be the best at what you do. This is a widely applicable bit of advice. But the way this message is presented -- to chastis…

> "Maybe loren quit because he wasn't being fulfilled." This is the thing that strikes me the most. I'm fairly young still and have begun working at a company as a programmer. I've been there for about five months and can already say that this isn't where my passion lies. There's nothing wrong with trying to figure out where you really want to go in life and trying to achieve it. Not everyone gets it right on the fir…

I'm getting along in (coder) years, and I'll just throw this bit of advice and then yell at you to get off my lawn.

I've cycled through "this isn't my passion" about 5 times in 15 years. And what I'm learning, very late, is that it can take about that long to understand the true nature of "passion," and years to develop enough facility, experience and comfort with a particular skill or vocation before you actually understand what it means to be truly at home in something that has become a part of you, probably through years of cycling through thoughts of "this isn't my passion."

"Passion," or the lack of, can be many things. It can be a deep-down intuitive feeling that you simply Don't Want To Do This Anymore. It's OK to feel that in your early 20s, or 5 months into your first gig. But, my 2c, don't give too much credence to it. Real passion happens most often with things that have beaten you down 4 or 5 times and finally have been overcome 'cause you kicked back. "Passion" happens most deeply with something that you love like a hometown, warts and all. Where people know you when you walk across the square, know which parts to avoid, and who has the best coffee. Programming, and really any vocation you chose is like a city. It's many things to many people, and rewards best those who practice a discipline of place.

So, I'd say, hold those things in tension: your gut feeling that this may not be for you, over and against the possibility that any new vocation you pursue will present the same roller-coaster of emotion: feelings of incompetence and boredom and futility, followed on by euphoric feelings of revelation, victory and at-homeness.

The trick is knowing whether you're just on the front end of that cycle, and when your gut is really telling you this isn't for you. For that -- talk to friends and coworkers. A lot, over long periods of time. But don't just go with a gut feeling.

Re: The Hacker News Generation (Afraid of Hard Work)

#95
I'm just finishing up a web based ordering and accounting system. Me and one other guy wrote it. It runs a $100,000,000 company, it keeps all the orders and books, day in and day out. It took two years of my life to write, I slept fitfully for most of that time. I doubted myself and my team mate (but he stuck through it and my doubt made me ashamed). Now that the system is up and running I'm extremely proud. But I know that 90% of the programmers I'll meet for the rest of my life won't even believe I did this. Very few people I've met can conceptualize the work effort required to complete a feat like this. This idea is lost on my generation of peers, it's gone and it's not coming back. The "me" generation is fundamentally lacking in this way. I mourn this a little every day b/c I can't relate my achievements to them, they just don't understand. They think I'm the one who needs to change...

Re: The Hacker News Generation (Afraid of Hard Work)

#96
>Burn out is just a rationalization for giving up early.

No. Fuck that noise.

Has the author ever seen someone who's burnt out? It is not a pretty sight, it is though the person is but an empty shell of what he once was (I know this sounds incredibly corny, but it really is the shortest way in which I can describe "being burnt out").

Re: The Hacker News Generation (Afraid of Hard Work)

#97
post #76
post #41

Somehow this article manages to be both wise and presumptuous. The points he makes speak from experience. It's a perspective that is too often ignored by younger generations: You can't always quit a job when the work gets boring -- sometimes you just have to push through the tedium if you want to be the best at what you do. This is a widely applicable bit of advice. But the way this message is presented -- to chastis…

I find it incredibly presumptuous, people's circumstances are different, not every young person who quits his job is a spoiled brat who doesn't know hard work. I might be biased, because I quit my stable but unfulfilling corporate job a few weeks ago; but after reading his post I have cancelled my Pluralsight $49/mo subscription. Maybe a pointless little rebellion, but I feel like the same message he directed at Lore…

Everything needs to be put in perspective. If he thinks the HN crowd doesn't know hard work or how to work hard then he must also realize that some people think it is a virtue to be lazy, but smart, when programming. Most of the profession is about automating work and making life easier for everyone. For example, I'm sure data entry is hard work but I think the first thing that comes to mind for all of us is how can we write some code that can automate the entire process, regardless of our generation.

Re: The Hacker News Generation (Afraid of Hard Work)

#98
I have to say, I agree with real moderate amount of this. There is sort of an echo chamber and a bit of a crazy echo chamber where people are cheered living in their cars like crazy people and think that says something about their entrepreneurial spirit.

But there's another side to this post that is a bit unfair to HN and generalizes us too much and the "these kids today" language ... I don't know, it's like he has a very good point and I agree with to such a large degree but he almost goes too far with the insults.

However, I do agree the initial blog post he is referencing raises so many flags for me. The first paragraph is like "I worked their two months" and then he got bored.

If I was the simpleprogrammer.com author, I would probably would have written this very same blog post in reaction to the other one. It is just outlandish crazy-talk ... But then I would have tried to calm down and not quite go after all of HN with such vitriol.

But I agree, the crazy he is responding to does kind of come out of an echo chamber in our community; down the whole "I'm going to make a publicity ploy by making a website dedicated to company X hiring me" stuff.

I think the language could be toned down a little but I think we can all learn from this as well. Perhaps if the language had been less acidic, we wouldn't have paid attention though.

Re: The Hacker News Generation (Afraid of Hard Work)

#99
post #89

Phrases like, "The myth of burn out" and "Burn out is just a rationalization for giving up early" give me great pause. Burn out is real . It is dangerous, and even an overwhelming, driving passion for your work, your creation, can lead to disaster. Ed Catmull recounted this story about the production of Toy Story 2 [1]: "So we came back, John [Lasseter] told the story crew to take a good rest over the holidays, and c…

> This was in June, so it's summer, and the father was supposed to drop the baby off at daycare, but forgot; don't know why... but came and left the baby in the car, and came into work.

Several years ago, I almost did the same thing with my infant daughter. Put her car seat in the back seat. Got in. Started driving. On auto-pilot started heading towards the office.

It was only when she happened to make a sound (she often slept on the way to daycare) that I remembered she was still in the truck. A combination of factors led to this:

1. I wasn't getting anywhere near enough sleep at night with feedings every few hours.

2. Carseats can't go in the front seat anymore. Good for safety, but bad for remembering a kid is in the car since they're out of sight.

3. Did I mention I wasn't getting enough sleep?

Re: The Hacker News Generation (Afraid of Hard Work)

#100
> Burn out is just a rationalization for giving up early.

That kind of talk is not only monumentally ignorant, but it is downright dangerous. If anything, it shows that you haven't ever really worked hard in your entire life.

Anyone who thinks burn out is some sort of myth should just go check the major universities' suicide rates among their overachieving students.

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