After 180 Websites, I’m Ready to Start the Rest of My Life as a Coder • Hacker News Board

Re: After 180 Websites, I’m Ready to Start the Rest of My Life as a Coder

#91

Post by cheald » Thu, Oct 03, 2013, 4:55 PM UTC

fein wrote: post #61

petea wrote: post #38

I don't know why she has never mentioned someone she worked with at all. I commented about this about her 70 days ago. --- So let's see her repository ( https://github.com/jendewalt/jennifer_dewalt ). This girl not only became a competent front end developer in 100 days, but looking at the Gemfile, she knows how to use capistrano, redis, capistrano, paperclip, omniauth and devise? She knows the best practices for Rai…

I've been a pretty hardcore PHP guy for 3 years now, and know exactly how long it would have taken me to do all of this: probably 200 days on my own. My biggest issue is stuff like this. Take a look at the JS from day 1-8, then look at day 9. Day 8: http://jenniferdewalt.com/more_drop_shadow.html Day 9: http://jenniferdewalt.com/bouncing_ball.html That's a pretty massive jump in coding proficiency in a delta of one d…

> a good deal of copy->paste from SO

This is pretty much a given. The delta from days 8 and 9 is "learned how to use named functions, learned that jQuery has plugins". That's not that much of a leap, but of course any student is going to be using external resources. You might notice that her goal was "make websites", not "hand-code everything".

This is how everyone learns. Copy-paste some code in without understanding it, watch it break, figure out how to fix it, repeat.

Re: After 180 Websites, I’m Ready to Start the Rest of My Life as a Coder

#92

Post by yapcguy » Thu, Oct 03, 2013, 5:00 PM UTC

jakewu1982 wrote: post #73

petea wrote: post #38

I don't know why she has never mentioned someone she worked with at all. I commented about this about her 70 days ago. --- So let's see her repository ( https://github.com/jendewalt/jennifer_dewalt ). This girl not only became a competent front end developer in 100 days, but looking at the Gemfile, she knows how to use capistrano, redis, capistrano, paperclip, omniauth and devise? She knows the best practices for Rai…

She is dating Aaron O'Connell, one of the technical co-founders of 42Floors. So, she may have been fortunate enough to have someone coach her along the way and unblock her when needed. Irrespective of that, I still think this is an impressive accomplishment in its own right. How many seasoned developers do we know that can execute at this pace for so long?

HN does seem to like promoting blog posts by 42Floors on the front page and whenever I've read them I think "meh".

Maybe this is all part of the soft marketing for YCombinator backed companies so they get technology "mind-share".

Re: After 180 Websites, I’m Ready to Start the Rest of My Life as a Coder

#93

Post by scriptstar » Thu, Oct 03, 2013, 5:01 PM UTC

Jennifer, did you documented your journey? It could out sell some of the big names in the training niche. If you documented then would you like to share that with HN community please?

Thanks.

Re: After 180 Websites, I’m Ready to Start the Rest of My Life as a Coder

#94

Post by ars_technician » Thu, Oct 03, 2013, 5:02 PM UTC

jamesaguilar wrote: post #71

huu wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just make sure you don't live in those cities proper :P

You can do it there too. I'd guess the average entry-level programmer in SF makes 80k a year. 2000/mo on rent (which is honestly a pretty nice place if you're sharing) leaves you with 20k to play with while still saving netting about 20k after taxes. Of course, if you live in the valley, you could save more , but the point is to illustrate that many (single, no dependents) tech workers can live in SF and still save.

Your math implies 64k after taxes, which is only 20% and is completely wrong.

The effective tax rate in Cali after federal and state is closer to 40%. That leaves 48k after taxes. Take out the 24k you blew on the 2k/mo apt and you're down to 24k and you haven't even put food on your plate or paid for transportation costs.

Take out 4k for food assuming you don't eat at nice restaurants. Take out 2k for a train pass and maybe another 0.5k for other transportation when the train isn't adequate. You are now down to 17.5k and you haven't saved anything or done anything 'to play'.

There is a reason the poverty level is around 70k in that area. 80k looks good on paper but in reality it's crap. It's about parity with a 37k salary in Austin, TX. http://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-living/san-francisco-ca/au...

Re: After 180 Websites, I’m Ready to Start the Rest of My Life as a Coder

#95

Post by enraged_camel » Thu, Oct 03, 2013, 5:02 PM UTC

onion2k wrote: post #42

The project was an awesome undertaking, and completing it successfully is brilliant. Jennifer clearly has an aptitude for taking an idea for a small website from conception to completion quickly. That's a heck of a skill. But it's not a skill that makes a good web developer. Web development is, in the most part, the easiest kind of development. In 15 years of doing this stuff I can state with some authority that 99%…

>>Web development is, in the most part, the easiest kind of development. In 15 years of doing this stuff I can state with some authority that 99% of websites are simple CRUD applications. Web development doesn't challenge your coding skills much. Occasionally it does, but only if you get in to either a product company or an agency that does fun things. Most don't.

I understand what you're trying to say in your post as a whole, but I hate the part I quoted because it comes across as extremely elitist, so much so that it takes away from your overall message. It's sort of odd because it perpetuates the weird hierarchy within the software development industry, where assembly coders look down upon C developers, who look down upon C++ developers, who look down upon C# developers, who look down upon web developers, and so on.

Re: After 180 Websites, I’m Ready to Start the Rest of My Life as a Coder

#96

Post by jorgeleo » Thu, Oct 03, 2013, 5:03 PM UTC

jorgeleo wrote: post #12

"The project certainly hasn’t given me a comprehensive understanding of software development, but it has laid a broad foundation for me to jump off of" No it has not, and no it has not. Don't get me wrong A+ for the effort... but it is a very small niche oriented effort. Comprehensive? Watch Rich Hickey talks ( http://www.infoq.com/author/Rich-Hickey ), try reading and exercising data structures (b-tree, rb-tree, bit…

I am going to answer here so I address everyone from one single place (some sort of DRY for answers)

Web development has not become the equivalent of software development. There are multiple other areas, Web development is currently a good entry point for self tough people, but not the only either. I know a lot of people that start with VBA macros in Excel.

Let me put it this way: I learned how to change the brake pads in my car. Then I decided that I was going to change the brake pads in 100 different car brands and models, so I did. Can I call my self a car mechanic? Nope, not even a brake specialist because I am forgetting a lot of other pieces and mechanism. But I can make a career out of it, fast brake maintenance.

Now I see someone that has the stamina, the admirable dedication to actually go through it, so I see someone that has the ability to go much further than the average guy. Tease her, give her some pointers and directions, if she likes challenges, challenge her to go more out there.

It is easy to sit back and clap at an accomplishment, and is no small accomplishment in this case. But she is thirsty for more, challenge her to more!!!... unless you don't know where that more is because the belief that web development is all there is to it

Some areas of web design is programming... JavaScript, server side, and a long etc certainly are. HTML is document painting. It is important, it requires some serious skills, skills that for that matter I don't have, but HTML is not programming because there are no conditionals, no loops. The basics building blocks in programming are those. If this hurts, I am honestly sorry, but you have 2 options, either react in anger (which is a secondary feeling, and you need to see what feeling is the primary), or research what else is there and maybe you will learn a thing or 2. HTML plus JavaScript it is programming, HTML and some CSS can be stretched to call it programming

Elitist? Confusing with "Computer Scientist"? I was just giving some pointers into other areas of software development. I did not mention Discrete mathematics, set theory, compiler construction, semantic analysis, etc, etc, etc. Those are areas for a Computer Scientist, and putting her against that can become discouraging instead of challenging, but then again, another computer scientist would have known that, wouldn't he?

If all that you see about Rich is Datatomic and Clojure, then you are missing a lot. Simple vs. Easy is more what I am talking about, or functions as the thing that make data time travel, aha! that can change the way you think about software development. That is programming BBQ, not HTML salad.

If you don't know what I am talking about... Google meet my friend here, friend meet Google. If there is something where she is above is that she took a challenge and meet it

What the original article did is nothing short of amazing... so much accomplished, so much stamina, so much potential. She claim that she wants to jump off... well, I mention a few pools where she can dive in

And finally... what is the difference between a jerk and tough love? can you recognize when you see it? There is really no absolute answer, but if you write it and read it back, you have a chance to see the color of the glasses that are in front of your eyes

Re: After 180 Websites, I’m Ready to Start the Rest of My Life as a Coder

#97

Post by farnsworth » Thu, Oct 03, 2013, 5:03 PM UTC

k3n wrote: post #50

petea wrote: post #38

I don't know why she has never mentioned someone she worked with at all. I commented about this about her 70 days ago. --- So let's see her repository ( https://github.com/jendewalt/jennifer_dewalt ). This girl not only became a competent front end developer in 100 days, but looking at the Gemfile, she knows how to use capistrano, redis, capistrano, paperclip, omniauth and devise? She knows the best practices for Rai…

> Really? Is Hacker News this gullible? Not so gullible so as to take to heart what you're saying, considering that you created your account solely to deride her. Here we are, 70 days after your account was created, and yet you've only posted 1 comment that wasn't negatively criticizing her? And your only argument is a copy/paste of your original complaint from 70 days ago, all based off of source-control introspecti…

Criticizing her? Sounds like a compliment to me.

Re: After 180 Websites, I’m Ready to Start the Rest of My Life as a Coder

#98

Post by jenniferDewalt » Thu, Oct 03, 2013, 5:06 PM UTC

BigChiefSmokem wrote: post #11

Okay now build an e-commerce web site that can handle thousands of transactions on a daily basis and can talk to internal systems like CRM, warehousing, and manufacturing. I'll be honest here. Coding was fun when I was young, but now I code for the money. So stay young Ms. Dewalt - don't become a cynical bastard like me (us?).

I really hope I'll have the good fortune of being able to continue making things I'm passionate about. If the day comes where I find I'm not doing something I love, I'll have to start thinking about doing 180 of something else.

Re: After 180 Websites, I’m Ready to Start the Rest of My Life as a Coder

#99

Post by thenomad » Thu, Oct 03, 2013, 5:06 PM UTC

bolder88 wrote: post #49

petea wrote: post #38

I don't know why she has never mentioned someone she worked with at all. I commented about this about her 70 days ago. --- So let's see her repository ( https://github.com/jendewalt/jennifer_dewalt ). This girl not only became a competent front end developer in 100 days, but looking at the Gemfile, she knows how to use capistrano, redis, capistrano, paperclip, omniauth and devise? She knows the best practices for Rai…

She's a she. It fits into the whole hacker news agenda of championing women in tech. The fact it's not true doesn't really matter. If a man had done the exact same project, no one would care. So, well done her for being a woman.

Not true. The most obvious example of a man embarking on a similar project - which people did care about - was Jonathan Coulton, who rose to fame at least partially thanks to his "thing a week" project and the output from that.

Jayenkai's "Game A Week" project (male dev) has also attracted quite a bit of press.

Re: After 180 Websites, I’m Ready to Start the Rest of My Life as a Coder

#100

Post by ars_technician » Thu, Oct 03, 2013, 5:06 PM UTC

breckinloggins wrote: post #86

benihana wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of those places have prohibitively high cost of living to make saving six months of salary very much not trivial. It's possible, but it isn't anywhere close to trivial.

Nope. That's why the no dependents part is essential. If you are single and willing to live with roommates, you will be able to navigate the "high cost of living" pretty successfully. I'm living quite comfortably in San Francisco and spending a fraction of what I was spending in Texas. Why? - No car. No gas. No upkeep. No payments. No insurance. No inspections. No car. - Roommates. I HATE living alone so this was a n…

>They were wrong, and I was a fool for listening to them instead of exploring it for myself. Don't make my mistakes.

They were right if you ever want to have a family. You are building no equity in rent so you will essentially have to leave and start over somewhere else to have kids. Your story is fine as long as it ends with you being single and alone without any real assets.