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HTML5 Flash Player (Shumway) lands in Mozilla

gemal.dk

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Re: HTML5 Flash Player (Shumway) lands in Mozilla

#71
post #63

Why do we need this? The way that Flash has diminished in significance since high-quality browsers on smartphones and tablets emerged is a good thing. The web is better with Flash gone completely, not dragged along through compatibility layers.

Completely agree. This will just bloat more whatever browser is implemented.

Re: HTML5 Flash Player (Shumway) lands in Mozilla

#73

Does this mean the FSF can cross off 'free flash player' from their high priority list? What will happen to Gnash?

Rob Sayove, the Gnash lead, was at the GNU 30th, and he's said he's basically done with Gnash. There's going to be an upcoming release, and then it's done. He was a bit concerned about the state of Flash, but Shumway gave him some hopes for the future.

(I am also a Shumway contributor)

Re: HTML5 Flash Player (Shumway) lands in Mozilla

#74
post #63

Why do we need this? The way that Flash has diminished in significance since high-quality browsers on smartphones and tablets emerged is a good thing. The web is better with Flash gone completely, not dragged along through compatibility layers.

First of all, good old backwards compatibility. There's large codebases still written in Flash, or perhaps things that are in Flash that will never get updated ever again (browser games being a big one), and people would like them to work even after Adobe's dropped out.

It also turns out that reimplementing Flash in HTML5 gives you a great idea of what's missing if you want to tell developers to just use HTML5. There has been quite a lot missing from the web standards that Shumway helped pushed through.

Re: HTML5 Flash Player (Shumway) lands in Mozilla

#75
post #3

Great effort but I really don't want this. I've lived without Flash for a year now and all is good. We just need to break the crack addiction!

There's no real conceptual difference between a element, a element, a WebGL experience, a NaCl app or a Flash on your webpage. They're all somewhat non-semantic, hard to search, rich media black boxes. So what's your particular beef with Flash, especially when rendered via HTML5? Or do you just hate all tools that enable creativity beyond a plain text website equally? Or did you just drink the Flash-should-die KoolAi…

There may not be any conceptual difference, but there is a very significant difference in how these things you describe are used. Flash, when used badly, becomes a self-contained sandbox for the entire experience of a website. Besides security concerns, this approach is damaging to the overall experience of that site, since developers end up needing to re-implement native controls and functionality (scrollbars, form elements and keyboard navigation to name a few) in order to provide users with affordances they would otherwise take for granted. More often than not, the developer doesn't re-implement these features and so users are left with a sub-optimal experience (even if it is more ‘on brand’, or replete with gratuitous effects and animations). This is to say nothing for the accessibility implications.

Since the advent of smartphones and tablets that can't display Flash content, sites that do this have started to die out in favour of a combination of native applications and true HTML implementations. If the experience they're going for calls for a video or canvas element (3D or otherwise) then great, go for it. But the scope of that part of the experience is implicitly reduced, and so it doesn't result in a sub-par experience across the board (I might not be able to see your fancy WebGL 3D canvas effects, but the links to your ‘contact us’ page still work).

What I'm worried about is that by providing a compatibility path, Flash's imminent demise will be put on hold, and the sub-optimal experiences I described above see a resurgence. And that's not a good thing.

Re: HTML5 Flash Player (Shumway) lands in Mozilla

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no real conceptual difference between a element, a element, a WebGL experience, a NaCl app or a Flash on your webpage. They're all somewhat non-semantic, hard to search, rich media black boxes. So what's your particular beef with Flash, especially when rendered via HTML5? Or do you just hate all tools that enable creativity beyond a plain text website equally? Or did you just drink the Flash-should-die KoolAi…

A video element is a video. It's as well or poorly handled as, say, an image. (The QuickTime / MP4 container actually allows standardized text tracks etc. so it's capable of being more semantically tractable than most other media formats in the long run.) The other options are all, as you say, semantically impenetrable, but that's not all there is to it. WebGL has the advantage of delivering very lightweight and effi…

> WebGL has the advantage of delivering very lightweight and efficient graphic effects, whereas even native Flash was horribly inefficient at doing what it did.

Fundamentally incorrect. Flash is actually an incredibly efficient file format for rich media, especially at vector animation. Look it up, you can fit amazing animations into just a few kb. Nothing can beat it on the web today for that purpose, and the Flash IDE environment is unsurpassed as a toolchain for the creation of that sort of content. Of course you can abuse it, like any other tech, and pump too many large images, videos, sounds or whatever into a SWF.

Re: HTML5 Flash Player (Shumway) lands in Mozilla

#79

How did Mozilla get around Adobe's oppressive EULA that forbids reverse engineering? This is a major obstacle of the Gnash project. They developers cannot install Flash, because to do so would make their work illegal.

They dropped that a long time ago with the OpenScreenProject licensing.

Re: HTML5 Flash Player (Shumway) lands in Mozilla

#80
post #4

Why didn't this come out of Adobe a year ago?

Because Adobe has long been profiting greatly from their proprietary Flash player and other related software. Had the Flash format been a free standard and Flash player had no restriction on reverse engineering we would have had free Flash players for a long time.
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