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What I learned from turning my ‘Out of Office’ auto-replies on for a month

dougbelshaw.com

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Re: What I learned from turning my ‘Out of Office’ auto-replies on for a month

#41

Post by zamalek »

spongle wrote: post #29
zamalek wrote: post #23

I while back I set up a rule on my mail server that would effectively OOF respond if people in my company if they didn't CC my manager (indicating that you should CC my manager so that he can triage whatever issue you may need me for). People started coming to me with real issues (instead of the "reflex ask the senior engineer") with valuable evidence (logs, etc.) - they not only needed to convince me to use my time…

You are probably perceived as a dick, as am I these days but it doesn't mean you are wrong. This is an unfortunate side effect of office politics and double-standards. My particular perception switcher was when people started starting side conversations by forwarding JIRA ticket email notifications to me with comments etc and emails with ticket references in asking questions. I rejected these with a simple filter [A-…

> You are probably perceived as a dick

While having a good relationship with your coworkers is an important part of being an employee; I am here to do my work. So if "I am a dick who gets stuff done" so be it :) .

Re: What I learned from turning my ‘Out of Office’ auto-replies on for a month

#42

Post by VLM »

TeddyLondon wrote: post #34
lepton wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really surprised at this attitude. What is fundamentally wrong with email, that I should do what I can to stop using it? I prefer written communication since I find it more deliberate, and therefore more productive ultimately (more thought goes into writing than into a phone conversation; the pace is slower). Email lets me keep my written communication all in one place. I can see how it would create silos; I try…

I'll add to why I think it is so bad, there is so god damn much of it! I am not trying to convert anyone but I would hate to get 100+ emails a day, how do you get anything else done? Since Monday morning (all of Monday and 3/4 of Tuesday) I have had 21 emails, mostly I have been cc'd by customers and they are irrelevant for me. For the out of work hours thing I have had a lot of emails out of hours and felt that I ha…

"I would hate to get 100+ emails a day, how do you get anything else done?"

I run 200+ most days and a LONG time ago (decades ago) I set up three rule based inboxs or whatever you want to call it, the junk that I know is junk and will not look at unless I'm actively searching, could be important but probably isn't (more or less the default), and the real inbox which is very carefully filtered, only certain from addresses and certain subjects.

The name of the game is making as many rules as possible to permanently shovel junk out of your official inbox and as few rules as possible to shovel real content into your "real inbox"

To say people get personally offended if they are (in their incorrect opinion) miscategorized would be a profound understatement. Always pretend you're incompetent WRT email (I've only been using email on the internet since 1991, I'm a total noob, so sorry) and I have no idea how to write rules and regexes when confronted.

About 3/5 of emails I get I delete without looking at in one folder, 1/5 I just glance at the subject line in that folder about once a day (usually the morning) and then delete, and the remainder I actually care about enough to read. Of those I read, most are irrelevant read and delete. In terms of actual actionable items I get about one per weekday from email.

Is it "safe" to simply delete emails, unread? Sure. I honestly forget stuff occasionally, probably more often than I incorrectly delete email.

The more intense the CYA culture, the more emails are sent but the fewer are read. It inevitably converges on a blogging model where everyone could read what everyone else is doing, but no one actually reads anything because there's just too much. If you send an email you've proactively given yourself the opportunity to blame the victim, who doesn't like that?

Re: What I learned from turning my ‘Out of Office’ auto-replies on for a month

#43

Post by dhimes »

retube wrote: post #4
nextw33k wrote: post #3

Aarrrrggggggg, out of office replied are the BANE of the internet. Its an asynchronous medium, like the postal service. Its not a conversation on the telephone. Replies are not expected to be instant. Anybody that calls you up 1 hour later to find out why you've not answered is clearly "doing it wrong"®. Use the correct tool for the job. The guy could have stopped spamming people and just answered his emails once a m…

Don't agree at all. Whilst it may be asynchronous, people do have an expectation of a reply within a reasonable time frame - hours to a few days depending on the relationship. It is _incredibly_ infuriating when people are out for 2 weeks and don't alert you to this fact. You end up wasting time waiting for a repsonse when you culd have immediately sought assistance from an alternative contact. It's not spam. It's po…

The problem is using a binary vocabulary to describe something that should be on a spectrum. Just because I use an asynchronous medium doesn't mean that I don't expect a reply in a "reasonable" time, and "reasonableness" will depend on the situation and hopefully both parties are in some agreement.

Think of an asynchronous ajax call. It may be ok to wait 5 seconds, but not 5 days.

I find far more intrusive the phone call that could have been taken care of via email. I deal with this because a community service group I work with has a lot of elder people. They like to call. Yes, I understand it's Tuesday, and we have a meeting Friday, but I can answer you in two hours (by email). Don't interrupt me right now (by calling). But it can't wait two weeks.

Re: What I learned from turning my ‘Out of Office’ auto-replies on for a month

#44

Post by dajbelshaw »

tocomment wrote: post #28

It's funny he thinks Twitter isn't asynchronous? Is he really getting more work done if he's checking twitter every five minutes?

Twitter's a constant stream I dip in and out of. DM's, IRC and Skype chat pings are for important stuff.

Works well. :-)

Re: What I learned from turning my ‘Out of Office’ auto-replies on for a month

#45

Post by spongle »

zamalek wrote: post #41
spongle wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are probably perceived as a dick, as am I these days but it doesn't mean you are wrong. This is an unfortunate side effect of office politics and double-standards. My particular perception switcher was when people started starting side conversations by forwarding JIRA ticket email notifications to me with comments etc and emails with ticket references in asking questions. I rejected these with a simple filter [A-…

> You are probably perceived as a dick While having a good relationship with your coworkers is an important part of being an employee; I am here to do my work. So if "I am a dick who gets stuff done" so be it :) .

Spot on :)

Re: What I learned from turning my ‘Out of Office’ auto-replies on for a month

#46

Post by TeddyLondon »

VLM wrote: post #42
TeddyLondon wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll add to why I think it is so bad, there is so god damn much of it! I am not trying to convert anyone but I would hate to get 100+ emails a day, how do you get anything else done? Since Monday morning (all of Monday and 3/4 of Tuesday) I have had 21 emails, mostly I have been cc'd by customers and they are irrelevant for me. For the out of work hours thing I have had a lot of emails out of hours and felt that I ha…

"I would hate to get 100+ emails a day, how do you get anything else done?" I run 200+ most days and a LONG time ago (decades ago) I set up three rule based inboxs or whatever you want to call it, the junk that I know is junk and will not look at unless I'm actively searching, could be important but probably isn't (more or less the default), and the real inbox which is very carefully filtered, only certain from addre…

"The name of the game is making as many rules as possible to permanently shovel junk out of your official inbox and as few rules as possible to shovel real content into your "real inbox"" - doesn't this just feel like your treading water?

"If you send an email you've proactively given yourself the opportunity to blame the victim, who doesn't like that?" - there is a lot to love in that, maybe I will fire up outlook!

Re: What I learned from turning my ‘Out of Office’ auto-replies on for a month

#47

Post by smackfu »

masklinn wrote: post #11
retube wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't agree at all. Whilst it may be asynchronous, people do have an expectation of a reply within a reasonable time frame - hours to a few days depending on the relationship. It is _incredibly_ infuriating when people are out for 2 weeks and don't alert you to this fact. You end up wasting time waiting for a repsonse when you culd have immediately sought assistance from an alternative contact. It's not spam. It's po…

> Whilst it may be asynchronous, people do have an expectation of a reply within a reasonable time frame - hours to a few days depending on the relationship. Not at all, unless frequent contacts are expected in which case you should be warned through other channels. > You end up wasting time waiting for a repsonse when you culd have immediately sought assistance from an alternative contact. If you need fast turnaroun…

>Not at all, unless frequent contacts are expected in which case you should be warned through other channels.

Obviously, this differs. At my actual job, email is the "need a response today" communication, while instant messaging or phone is "need a response now". Out-of-office messages are invaluable to know if someone is just out today, in which case things are fine, or they are out for two weeks, in which case I need to find their delegate.

Re: What I learned from turning my ‘Out of Office’ auto-replies on for a month

#48

Post by dajbelshaw »

nextw33k wrote: post #8
retube wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't agree at all. Whilst it may be asynchronous, people do have an expectation of a reply within a reasonable time frame - hours to a few days depending on the relationship. It is _incredibly_ infuriating when people are out for 2 weeks and don't alert you to this fact. You end up wasting time waiting for a repsonse when you culd have immediately sought assistance from an alternative contact. It's not spam. It's po…

Which is exactly fundamental to my point and to the article. You have an expectation which you are placing on other. When the author stopped trying to be synchronous with an asynchronous medium he found himself to be more productive and people were OK with that. It turns out that the frustration you feel is the problem of someone not replying, it is you externalising your problems as other peoples fault. If you reall…

Exactly. :-)

Re: What I learned from turning my ‘Out of Office’ auto-replies on for a month

#49

Post by VLM »

TeddyLondon wrote: post #46
VLM wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I would hate to get 100+ emails a day, how do you get anything else done?" I run 200+ most days and a LONG time ago (decades ago) I set up three rule based inboxs or whatever you want to call it, the junk that I know is junk and will not look at unless I'm actively searching, could be important but probably isn't (more or less the default), and the real inbox which is very carefully filtered, only certain from addre…

"The name of the game is making as many rules as possible to permanently shovel junk out of your official inbox and as few rules as possible to shovel real content into your "real inbox"" - doesn't this just feel like your treading water? "If you send an email you've proactively given yourself the opportunity to blame the victim, who doesn't like that?" - there is a lot to love in that, maybe I will fire up outlook!

"doesn't this just feel like your treading water?"

I've spent a fair amount of my programming career automating humans out of inhumane jobs, so if anything it feels like work to me, rather than treading water or grinding. Human beings shouldn't have to read a weekly email announcing Casual Jeans Day Is Friday every single week or whatever.

There is some grind game aspect to it. Some people grind their virtual farm production, I grind the minimization of my real email inbox. Some days I login and see I have no real emails at all. Cool!

Re: What I learned from turning my ‘Out of Office’ auto-replies on for a month

#50

Post by dajbelshaw »

tomjen3 wrote: post #26
zamalek wrote: post #23

I while back I set up a rule on my mail server that would effectively OOF respond if people in my company if they didn't CC my manager (indicating that you should CC my manager so that he can triage whatever issue you may need me for). People started coming to me with real issues (instead of the "reflex ask the senior engineer") with valuable evidence (logs, etc.) - they not only needed to convince me to use my time…

I wonder how much real information you missed that way. Also WTF for being on IRC but not email.

They're fundamentally different forms of communication suited for different purposes?
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