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The Indian and his insatiable appetite for the college degree

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Re: The Indian and his insatiable appetite for the college degree

#81
post #30

The fact that a formal engineering/MBA education isn't a prerequisite for business success is almost a tautology now, especially among software startups. So there is nothing new here. There are some half-truths though: > For some reasons, Indians just can’t deal with the fact that someone without pedigree can get somewhere in life. - Airtel, India's largest telecom company, was started by Sunil Mittal, armed with jus…

The examples you point out only make this obsession sadder and more ironic, though. In other words, it can be the case that all of your examples are true and people in India still are obsessed with the MBA or engineering degree.

Re: The Indian and his insatiable appetite for the college degree

#82
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going to school or college is much more than just passing the tests. The human interaction, the relationships you form, the ideas you will be exposed to, the things you will learn to avoid... There's value in the education process that goes well beyond the final certificate.

Sure - but you can probably get similar experiences in other ways as well, again for much less money.

Yes, you can always think up some way to get the same benefit, but the point is that for most people, going to college is a good way to get a well-rounded education that involves being exposed to a range of ideas and people. Can a dedicated person figure out a cheaper alternative? Possibly, but that's beside the point.

Re: The Indian and his insatiable appetite for the college degree

#83
post #62

So my family is from Bangladesh. My aunt and uncle moved to Toronto. My cousin wants to study business and get an MBA, but his parents want him to study electrical engineering. I didn't get it, until I realized its all about risk aversion. An engineering degree is a secure path to the middle class. A business degree isn't, and entrerpeneurship certainly isn't. The business degree might have a higher potential reward,…

I find it fascinating that engineering is now seen as a secure path to middle class.

When I was in college, construction was a secure path to middle class, and engineering was something reserved for folks who wanted to make 300k, but work 80 hours a week, a decidedly not-middle-class work ethic.

Re: The Indian and his insatiable appetite for the college degree

#84
post #10

Firstly being entrepreneur and going to college are not orthogonal goals. Secondly for any poor person in India, without any funding or support. No infrastructure, no exposure and having to fight a historic burden of poverty in the family. Not getting a college education means, the guy will eventually end up working at a tailor's shop or a garage or driver. Working whole life only to hope his son breaks of the cycle…

>> Getting a decent "education" is the easiest way to get a job The traditional education system WAS the easiest way to get a job. Nowadays, it is the easiest way NOT to get a job. Step 1: Download the 10 books x 4 (years) = 40 books of the average university degree. Step 2: Unless it's mathematics, it is just literature. Read it. Step 3: Sit the 10 x 4 exams at an online college. In most developed countries, you hav…

Tuition for online colleges is still expensive. University of Phoenix charges tuition of $12k - 15k per year. Strayer and DeVry charge even more. If you want to go to an accredited online school, it can be more flexible, but I don't think it's orders of magnitude cheaper.

Re: The Indian and his insatiable appetite for the college degree

#85
post #64

I really dislike articles that generalize based on race, religion, sex, etc. It's inappropriate and says nothing about individuals (all of whom are unique). When you're researching a large nation with more than a billion people, you'll find a lot of people who have degrees and a lot of people who do not and a lot of people who like chewing gum and (again) a lot of people who do not. The only thing the results should…

While individuals are different, valid and useful generalizations do exist. Growing up (and living in) Indian culture is different from growing up and living in the US, which is different from Japan, from Germany, etc.

I assume you are in the US. If you met an Indian person and evaluated his relationships and belief systems based on your American standards, you'd get a very misleading picture. You need to understand cultural context.

Re: The Indian and his insatiable appetite for the college degree

#86
I think people underestimate the systemic restrictions placed on the Indian Middle Class, and fail to realise the connection to a larger problem India faces, viz. drastic shortage.

You want to become a doctor? Too bad you don't have an MBBS. We don't care whether you decided to become one only during college, and are willing to spend a few extra years catching up.

Except for diplomas (by which I mean qualifications like CA, which you theoretically could get without attending classes at a college) doesn't place a prerequisite on having a degree. Every master's program I have come across requires a bachelor's degree. Some are more flexible, admitting degrees outside the relevant fields. But most are not.

The reason is pretty simple : In a country like India where anything good suffers a big shortage, people generally prefer to stick to rules, creating many false negatives. This is because no one wants to take up liability in case a false negative crops up. "I followed all the regulations and suggestions," they say.

So anything that involves an expected, and common path ends up needing college degrees as prerequisites. For the Middle Class which cannot afford to wait out a few years, they have no choice but to toe the line. Only if you have any capital (and in India, connections) to begin with, can you expect to change the system. (The author here is a businessman in the crudest sense : not a very conventional career path in a lot of families).

My parents generation mostly got their jobs before the liberalisation of the economy in 1991. In those days, a lot of people dreamed of government jobs : stable, decent paying, and allows you to slack off. In spite of globalisation, we cannot expect their mindset to change a lot after they've fought so badly for jobs, right? This old mindset comes into play when they suggest us to go to college : they've seen decades of public sector employment, this new path (entrepreneurship) seems new, and they honestly believe they are trying to help you. There is no ill-will here.

I do agree one can still earn a good living without college in India too. But I feel what I said has a considerable effect in societal status of middle class people (most of whom are not extraordinary), and this in turn makes people want the college degree.

Re: The Indian and his insatiable appetite for the college degree

#87
>>But, something he said really shocked me. It goes like this — “Oh, my sister’s kid is just like you. He’s got a $10,000 grant to go build a business and he’s in the 10th grade. My sister asked me what she should do. I told her to ask him to focus on finishing his college first before doing anything else.”

I don't find this particularly shocking. Without knowing the particulars of this kid, it sounds like pretty sane advice to a 16 year old - finish your education. School, strangely enough, gives people a lot of free time too, probably more than a full-time job does. It's possible to get an education, and dabble in entrepreneurship, and find friends who gel with you enough to make you might want to take on as partners. Someone with the aptitude for entrepreneurship will likely find a way to do all that while getting an education, but it's not irresponsible for a parent or guardian to encourage kids to focus on their education -- Just because some kids turn out to be successful dropout-entrepreneurs doesn't mean that dropping out at the first opportunity is a well-defined path to success.

Re: The Indian and his insatiable appetite for the college degree

#88
post #30

The fact that a formal engineering/MBA education isn't a prerequisite for business success is almost a tautology now, especially among software startups. So there is nothing new here. There are some half-truths though: > For some reasons, Indians just can’t deal with the fact that someone without pedigree can get somewhere in life. - Airtel, India's largest telecom company, was started by Sunil Mittal, armed with jus…

The examples you point out only make this obsession sadder and more ironic, though. In other words, it can be the case that all of your examples are true and people in India still are obsessed with the MBA or engineering degree.

I don't see anything sad or ironic. As pointed out, these examples are outliers. How many others failed to make it and were so indebted that they could never dare to venture again? The concept of personal bankruptcy does not exist in India. Being an entrepreneur in India is much harder than in the US.

Re: The Indian and his insatiable appetite for the college degree

#89

Indian here but on the other side of this. Got MS, MBA, and currently thinking about Doctorate. May or may-not do a startup.

You missed the whole point of the article. Perhaps you should read it again. He is talking about people like you.

Re: The Indian and his insatiable appetite for the college degree

#90
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I could go on. You should, and in the way cite some statistics or else you would be falling for this common logical fallacy: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/anecdotal

A single counterexample is enough to refute a universal claim.

But multiple examples provide only a skewed dataset.
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