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The Indian and his insatiable appetite for the college degree

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Re: The Indian and his insatiable appetite for the college degree

#71

Post by brazzy »

zem wrote: post #28
eriksank wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Getting a decent "education" is the easiest way to get a job The traditional education system WAS the easiest way to get a job. Nowadays, it is the easiest way NOT to get a job. Step 1: Download the 10 books x 4 (years) = 40 books of the average university degree. Step 2: Unless it's mathematics, it is just literature. Read it. Step 3: Sit the 10 x 4 exams at an online college. In most developed countries, you hav…

you have clearly never lived in india. you absolutely need a college degree to be even considered for most decent jobs.

He didn't say you should not get a college degree, he said you can get a (legitimate) degree in less time and for much, much less money if you study by yourself and only go to an actual brick-and-mortar college to take the final tests.

Re: The Indian and his insatiable appetite for the college degree

#72

Post by [deleted] »

r0h1n wrote: post #67
weland wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many countries, just like India, where exactly the same thing happens. There are countless examples of people who live a wealthy life (this tends to be the common denominator of success in societies where poverty is rampant), but most of the middle- and lower-class inhabitants are convinced you can't get anywhere unless you're at the top of your class. Folk statistics doesn't work the way you describe it. I…

I agree. The preference for stable, well-paid, predictable careers is a global phenomenon, and especially in poorer countries. And had this article been nuanced about that (as many earlier articles and posts on this topic have been in the past), it would have been okay. Instead it reduces it to some kind of peculiar Indian trait ("The Indian and his insatiable...") while painting the second most populous country in t…

[deleted]

Re: The Indian and his insatiable appetite for the college degree

#73

Post by [deleted] »

zem wrote: post #28
eriksank wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Getting a decent "education" is the easiest way to get a job The traditional education system WAS the easiest way to get a job. Nowadays, it is the easiest way NOT to get a job. Step 1: Download the 10 books x 4 (years) = 40 books of the average university degree. Step 2: Unless it's mathematics, it is just literature. Read it. Step 3: Sit the 10 x 4 exams at an online college. In most developed countries, you hav…

you have clearly never lived in india. you absolutely need a college degree to be even considered for most decent jobs.

[deleted]

Re: The Indian and his insatiable appetite for the college degree

#74

Post by alphakappa »

brazzy wrote: post #71
zem wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you have clearly never lived in india. you absolutely need a college degree to be even considered for most decent jobs.

He didn't say you should not get a college degree, he said you can get a (legitimate) degree in less time and for much, much less money if you study by yourself and only go to an actual brick-and-mortar college to take the final tests.

Going to school or college is much more than just passing the tests. The human interaction, the relationships you form, the ideas you will be exposed to, the things you will learn to avoid... There's value in the education process that goes well beyond the final certificate.

Re: The Indian and his insatiable appetite for the college degree

#75

Post by brazzy »

alphakappa wrote: post #74
brazzy wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He didn't say you should not get a college degree, he said you can get a (legitimate) degree in less time and for much, much less money if you study by yourself and only go to an actual brick-and-mortar college to take the final tests.

Going to school or college is much more than just passing the tests. The human interaction, the relationships you form, the ideas you will be exposed to, the things you will learn to avoid... There's value in the education process that goes well beyond the final certificate.

Sure - but you can probably get similar experiences in other ways as well, again for much less money.

Re: The Indian and his insatiable appetite for the college degree

#76

Post by BWStearns »

kamaal wrote: post #41
BWStearns wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would hardly say that he is belittling people in the situation you describe. What he is attempting to discourage is the mentality that sticks to the dogmatic cultural position even in the face of a) historical data indicating that academic pedigree isn't a rock-solid predictor of success, and b) local data indicating a higher than average likelihood of success for the individual in question. This is a specific exam…

>>academic pedigree isn't a rock-solid predictor of success Definition of success is extremely difficult to be given here. I will give you a small example. Literacy is a big problem in India. Unfortunately since you can't read or write, your access to information is limited. This puts things like news papers and magazines outside your reach. Access to any kind of information will be weak(Access to information is the…

Clearly neither me nor OP is arguing against basic education. Nor that college or advanced degrees are a good thing, so please get rid of that straw man fast.

Additionally, the discussion on the authors post was primarily about those who have developed some capability to "do" either outside the conventional school system or at a particularly early point. This clearly limits the applicability of the discussion to those who have in some fashion achieved access to information and processed it well. This likely rules out illiterate people, non-English speakers (specifically in Tech) and many others from the discussion. I am not saying that their exclusion from information is a good thing, clearly it is not. However, taking the median Indian and saying that the best move in their situation should be encouraged universally is clearly wrong, as is doing so in any culture/country, and I interpreted the article to only be complaining about the dogmatic attachment to that "best path" even in the face of demonstrated success.

Re: The Indian and his insatiable appetite for the college degree

#77

Post by Mikeb85 »

This is pretty much the way of the world, not just in India. The 'safe' route is to get a technical degree, work for a large corporation, and hopefully retire some day. Can't blame parents for wanting to shield their children from risk and potential failure...

Re: The Indian and his insatiable appetite for the college degree

#78

Post by pnathan »

kamaal wrote: post #10

Firstly being entrepreneur and going to college are not orthogonal goals. Secondly for any poor person in India, without any funding or support. No infrastructure, no exposure and having to fight a historic burden of poverty in the family. Not getting a college education means, the guy will eventually end up working at a tailor's shop or a garage or driver. Working whole life only to hope his son breaks of the cycle…

This is not confined to India; this is - broadly and generally speaking - also a condition in lower class USA, particularly if the individuals aren't hustlers or have contact with people who understand money.

Source: Anecdotes and reading lots of news articles.

Re: The Indian and his insatiable appetite for the college degree

#79

Post by randomdata »

stephenaturner wrote: post #19

I agree it's perfectly possible to get somewhere as an entrepreneur without a college degree. But it's hardly detrimental to have one either. And I'm kind of sick of the US-centric view that all college degrees cost $100,000+ -- many high quality degrees in other western countries cost as little as 10-20% of this figure (and often are paid for in a deferred payment scheme). As with so many things (like healthcare) it…

> And I'm kind of sick of the US-centric view that all college degrees cost $100,000+ -- many high quality degrees in other western countries cost as little as 10-20% of this figure

It doesn't seem out of line to me. The average high school graduate in Canada will earn about $30,000 per year during the typical age one goes to university. Assuming a degree takes four years, that is a cost of $120,000 right there, ignoring any other fees that may be associated with enrolment.

Re: The Indian and his insatiable appetite for the college degree

#80

Post by positivejam »

r0h1n wrote: post #67
weland wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many countries, just like India, where exactly the same thing happens. There are countless examples of people who live a wealthy life (this tends to be the common denominator of success in societies where poverty is rampant), but most of the middle- and lower-class inhabitants are convinced you can't get anywhere unless you're at the top of your class. Folk statistics doesn't work the way you describe it. I…

I agree. The preference for stable, well-paid, predictable careers is a global phenomenon, and especially in poorer countries. And had this article been nuanced about that (as many earlier articles and posts on this topic have been in the past), it would have been okay. Instead it reduces it to some kind of peculiar Indian trait ("The Indian and his insatiable...") while painting the second most populous country in t…

>but to only disprove the author's sweeping claim that the lack of a pedigree is some unsurmountable obstacle to succeed in India.

I didn't get that from reading the OP's article at all. I heard him saying that the lack of a pedigree is perceived by people in India as an insurmountable obstacle. You may disagree with that. Personally, I have no idea. But there's a difference between what you're accusing him of saying and what he actually said.

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