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Spaniards are less productive, constantly tired: Spain is in the wrong time zone

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Re: Spaniards are less productive, constantly tired: Spain is in the wrong time zone

#61

Post by Jacqued »

mynegation wrote: post #58
Jacqued wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, it seems like an incomplete explanation at the very least. France largely overlaps Spain in terms of [latitude] longitude, is in the same time zone, shares some of the traditions cited in the article (long lunch break, midddle-of-the-morning and middle-of-the-afternoon coffee breaks, dinner at 8pm), and has one of the highest productivities in the world, in line with the US, Japan or the UK (above if you coun…

You most definitely meant "longitude", not "latitude", right?

I did, you're right. Thanks for pointing that out !

Re: Spaniards are less productive, constantly tired: Spain is in the wrong time zone

#62

Post by Samuel_Michon »

mjn wrote: post #55
Samuel_Michon wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Greeks work the most hours/year on average, and Belgians work the fewest. Also taking into account GDP divided by population, that implies Greeks get less done per hour than Belgians. To call Southern Europeans ‘lazy’ would be a bit much, but I do think the numbers support that they have a different work ethic from Northern Europeans. I live in the Netherlands, where people work 30 hours a week on average. Yet, the…

Sure, I'm simply responding to the "laziness" argument. Greece's problem is indeed productivity, not lack of hard work. There are a lot of hard-working mom-and-pop shops which put in many hours, but cannot anymore compete in a globalized economy, when their international competitors are streamlined corporations. Here in Denmark we work fewer hours, but rather than work them in a DIY import/export business like is com…

I agree. I also think that education level might have something to do with it. As a farmer or factory worker, you’ll likely work hard, but your contribution probably won’t be reflected as much in GDP as an engineer’s work.

Re: Spaniards are less productive, constantly tired: Spain is in the wrong time zone

#63

Post by hnriot »

growupkids wrote: post #20
bbwharris wrote: post #4

I lived in Spain for about a year. Blame it on the time zone, but inherently the culture is "work to live" not "live to work". I miss it and sincerely cherish that country and all the great people in it.

Perhaps that was more of a culture coping mechanism? With an unemployment rate of a staggering 50% for those under 25, and with 68% of them leaving Spain to find work, and 12% overall unemployment for everyone else: that sounds like a lot of people that don't even have a job. That's not a good thing, perhaps the attitude of work to live, as said previously, is more of a coping mechanism. Otherwise, maybe this is at t…

more likely it's the opposite, the reason for the unemployment rates and poor GDP is because of this attitude to work. Its like trying find a ton of explanations for something when the big pink elephant in the room is being ignored. Ever since the British defeated their "invincible" Armada Spain has tried to compete with the rest of Europe and struggled, culminating with the current financial crisis. The time zone nonsense has nothing to do with it.

Re: Spaniards are less productive, constantly tired: Spain is in the wrong time zone

#64

Post by moocowduckquack »

acchow wrote: post #30
moocowduckquack wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spain has a higher productivity per employed worker than Germany, however since the collapse of the construction industry they have rampant unemployment. The Spanish are not lazy, although your argument certainly is. http://rwer.wordpress.com/2011/10/24/southern-european-worke... http://rwer.wordpress.com/2012/11/29/jobs-and-productivity-i...

The productivity is measured in an abstract unit (currency), not the actual quality and quantity of product - thus it is open to distortions (such as abnormally high foreign investment).

Fair enough.

If we ignore the numbers and just look at the situation a little more generally then, Spain has gone through a massive construction boom that was typified by speculative overbuilding, which is part of the current problem now that too much has been built and the real estate prices have collapsed.

Building far too much is not often associated with lazyness on the part of the workforce.

Re: Spaniards are less productive, constantly tired: Spain is in the wrong time zone

#65

Post by Dewie »

workhere-io wrote: post #50
juusto wrote: post #2

Hogwash. What about the higher productivity of Scandinavians? They shift back and forth on "time-zones" due to the constant change of amount of light because of the very hash winter. Sometimes with as few as 3 hours of light, not sun, but still maintain the same level of productivity. Currently, Spanish primetime stretches until after midnight <- Well what about making less time for primetime? Or less siestas?

What about the higher productivity of Scandinavians? They shift back and forth on "time-zones" What? We have summer time (DST) and regular time - just like most other European countries. If you're talking about Scandinavia's location relative to its time zone, most of Scandinavia is within its "natural" time zone [1]. And your "very hard winter" and "as few as 3 hours of light" comments mostly apply to the very North…

I live 60 degrees north (which is not north enough to be Northern Norway) and the winters do get quite dark. It also gets compounded if you live in a valley, which many/most in my part of the country do. And living near the coast, the climate is so mild that the winter sees little in the way of snow, which makes it even more dark since there is no snow to reflect the sunlight.

Re: Spaniards are less productive, constantly tired: Spain is in the wrong time zone

#66

Post by crazygringo »

What? This doesn't even begin to make sense, just like the article says in the beginning -- Americans are an hour off for the majority of the year, and it doesn't seem to be harming anything.

If there's any kind of special Spanish fatigue, I can't believe it has anything to do with their timezone -- it's the entire cultural thing of sleeping/relaxing at siesta, and staying up late. Spaniards don't work late because of anything to do with the natural setting of the sun, it's the fact that they take a three-hour "lunch"!

Yet somehow the article neglects to mention this at all...

Re: Spaniards are less productive, constantly tired: Spain is in the wrong time zone

#67

Post by moocowduckquack »

hnriot wrote: post #63
growupkids wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps that was more of a culture coping mechanism? With an unemployment rate of a staggering 50% for those under 25, and with 68% of them leaving Spain to find work, and 12% overall unemployment for everyone else: that sounds like a lot of people that don't even have a job. That's not a good thing, perhaps the attitude of work to live, as said previously, is more of a coping mechanism. Otherwise, maybe this is at t…

more likely it's the opposite, the reason for the unemployment rates and poor GDP is because of this attitude to work. Its like trying find a ton of explanations for something when the big pink elephant in the room is being ignored. Ever since the British defeated their "invincible" Armada Spain has tried to compete with the rest of Europe and struggled, culminating with the current financial crisis. The time zone no…

Compare the UK manufacturing sector to the Spanish. The only reason that we are not (yet) in much worse straights than Spain and Italy is because we are the place to route the money through.

On paper the UK has the worst economic exposure in the OECD and produces very little indeed.

We are little more than a service economy for banking at this point, and UK banking has the lion's share of our total debt, dwarfing what is owed by the public sector. Luckily we are considered the stable place, so people continue to put their money here, but I suspect that is more of a confidence trick than anything else.

Re: Spaniards are less productive, constantly tired: Spain is in the wrong time zone

#68

Post by sentenza »

crazygringo wrote: post #66

What? This doesn't even begin to make sense, just like the article says in the beginning -- Americans are an hour off for the majority of the year, and it doesn't seem to be harming anything. If there's any kind of special Spanish fatigue, I can't believe it has anything to do with their timezone -- it's the entire cultural thing of sleeping/relaxing at siesta, and staying up late. Spaniards don't work late because o…

Hm. This does not quite agree with my experience.

A few years back, when I lived in Madrid, I noticed that this city has an insane grind. To me it looked as if the culture there started off with a "begin work early, have siesta, end work late" setup, but at some point along the way they lost the siesta part.

Many Spaniards work really hard all day, all week, then (at least the young ones) party just as hard all weekend. Repeat ad infinitum.

Don't know about the time zone though. That seems dubious.

Re: Spaniards are less productive, constantly tired: Spain is in the wrong time zone

#69

Post by donall »

This article ignores the fact that one region in Spain (the Canary Islands) operates on the "correct" time zone. I have lived both in the Canaries and in mainland Spain and I can tell you that there is no appreciable difference in the attitudes described by the article. Spain's problems (if indeed they are problems) are cultural and cannot be attributed to hours of sunlight.

This is clearly just an example of the Spanish parliament looking for a scapegoat for the woeful state of the Spanish economy.

Re: Spaniards are less productive, constantly tired: Spain is in the wrong time zone

#70

Post by olmo »

Samuel_Michon wrote: post #62
mjn wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, I'm simply responding to the "laziness" argument. Greece's problem is indeed productivity, not lack of hard work. There are a lot of hard-working mom-and-pop shops which put in many hours, but cannot anymore compete in a globalized economy, when their international competitors are streamlined corporations. Here in Denmark we work fewer hours, but rather than work them in a DIY import/export business like is com…

I agree. I also think that education level might have something to do with it. As a farmer or factory worker, you’ll likely work hard, but your contribution probably won’t be reflected as much in GDP as an engineer’s work.

We have plenty of engineers in spain (me being one).

http://capitalsocialenespanol.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/st...

http://capitalsocialenespanol.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/gr...

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