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Tarsnap logo contest

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Re: Tarsnap logo contest

#91

Post by unclebucknasty »

AnotherDesigner wrote: post #34

I've wrote about this a few times on HN before. You guys like to downvote me every time I do but here we go again ... Good designers, the ones you want if this is important to you, don't do contests. We have families to feed and bills to pay. "Winning" a popularity contest, not based on substance but instead on style, doesn't allow us to support ourself and our families doing our work. So, who are the designers doing…

Ok, I have to say this: there are too many people out there holding themselves out as designers, and truly good ones are very hard to find. I have spent thousands over the years on design I never used and have spent thousands more on items that were usable, but sub-optimal (i.e. I settled).

Portfolios aren't enough. Conversations aren't enough. And, the standard payment plans of a third up-front leaves the client holding the bag if the designer can't deliver. It comes down to whether the designer can understand what the client likes, add his/her experience, design principles, creativity, artistic ability, etc., then execute in a way that is compelling and professional. But, frequently you don't know if the designer can truly do this until you have committed and get that initial revision.

Here's how it goes: After the initial revision, you then give feedback and the designer begins to iterate, frequently getting further and further away. From there, it devolves into a frustrated designer who then puts the onus on the client to tell him/her exactly what he wants. This means the client is now effectively designing and the designer is just putting the pixels together in Photoshop. Game over. Of course the client doesn't know what he is doing or how it will look ("maybe if you move this over there" or similar is frequently heard). But, the designer then takes the position that "this is what you asked for."

I have seen some variation of this happen far too many times, and not just with my own projects. It seems to be the rule, and not the exception. The designer either gets it or not, and too many don't.

So, something needed to change about the process or otherwise, and I think that is the entire impetus behind these contests. Maybe they are not perfect and have their own downside, but they shift the risk squarely to the designers' side. Too much? I don't know. But, sites like 99designs are a market-based solution to a real pain experienced by clients in the design space. Think about that: It is not just price. It is the total experience and the risk profile on the client side.

If more designers were taking better care of their clients (as you may well be doing), I would have no interest in seeking such alternatives.

Re: Tarsnap logo contest

#92

Post by selmnoo »

noir_lord wrote: post #83

http://i.imgur.com/UP5d3gH.png edit: http://imgur.com/k6elBCU with masthead Not a professional designer but I like mucking around in inkscape and it was a fun way to avoid work.

Oh Gosh, that was all done in Inkspace? Pretty impressive, I'll have to check that program out.

Re: Tarsnap logo contest

#93

Post by noir_lord »

selmnoo wrote: post #92
noir_lord wrote: post #83

http://i.imgur.com/UP5d3gH.png edit: http://imgur.com/k6elBCU with masthead Not a professional designer but I like mucking around in inkscape and it was a fun way to avoid work.

Oh Gosh, that was all done in Inkspace? Pretty impressive, I'll have to check that program out.

Yep entirely in inkcsape.

It's a fantastic program even to a developer type like me, it also has really really good PDF import which is useful sometimes :).

Re: Tarsnap logo contest

#94

Post by noir_lord »

cperciva wrote: post #3
prawn wrote: post #2

A good way to make sure that the designer gets the full fee (without losing a commission to 99designs or by them participating in a design contest with no guarantee of getting paid) is to choose one designer and offer them the $500. Does the interest in design contests stem from a fear of paying and getting something you might not like? Or not knowing what you might like until you see it?

I have no idea what I might like. I'm hoping to get some discussion and sharing of ideas -- including from people who don't have any interest in or ability to actually produce a logo themselves. If I knew that, say, I wanted a graphic of a piece of tar being snapped in half, I'd look for an artist and say "here's $500, please draw this for me". But given that I have no idea what I want, I figure the more people I inv…

I dropped you an email but just in case http://i.imgur.com/k6elBCU.png

Re: Tarsnap logo contest

#95

Post by prawn »

cperciva wrote: post #3
prawn wrote: post #2

A good way to make sure that the designer gets the full fee (without losing a commission to 99designs or by them participating in a design contest with no guarantee of getting paid) is to choose one designer and offer them the $500. Does the interest in design contests stem from a fear of paying and getting something you might not like? Or not knowing what you might like until you see it?

I have no idea what I might like. I'm hoping to get some discussion and sharing of ideas -- including from people who don't have any interest in or ability to actually produce a logo themselves. If I knew that, say, I wanted a graphic of a piece of tar being snapped in half, I'd look for an artist and say "here's $500, please draw this for me". But given that I have no idea what I want, I figure the more people I inv…

Is it about what you want, or about what best represents your product to your audience? e.g., you give the brief to a designer and they work from that.

Would you run a code contest to have a software product built?

Re: Tarsnap logo contest

#96

Post by prawn »

sixQuarks wrote: post #46
ericdykstra wrote: post #11

I think you would end up with a better logo if you just did a call to your mailing list for designer recommendations, and paid a real designer $500 for a few hours of their work to come up with their best effort. By opening a contest, you're not only going to get a much lower quality of submissions, but in the end, the final decision is going to be made by you, someone "useless at anything artistic". Paying a designe…

I don't agree. He's looking for something that he can't put his finger on. The likelihood that the one designer he chooses comes up with the best idea is low. By holding the contest, he can get dozens of submissions. They may not be well-designed, but he can use the best theme from the designs submitted to hire a top-notch designer and polish it up, if need be.

Reread this and imagine it's a code contest. Less subjective maybe, but would you want to build for someone with such a vague demand? "I need it to do, err, I don't know. Can't quite put my finger on it."

Re: Tarsnap logo contest

#97

Post by dnerdy »

vicbrooker wrote: post #12

Considering Tarsnap doesn't have a GUI I'd suggest a text-only logo - something like Tarsnap_ for a full logo and then just T_ for social media icons/favicon/128x128. I can put something together but at the end of the day it's just changing fonts until there's a winner. Colin, if you're interested in the idea and there's a particular font/color you would like used let me know and I'll make the pngs for you. Don't str…

Text-only is also what I was thinking.

Implemented via the Web Inspector:

http://static.deliciouslynerdy.com/tarsnap/logo-and-favicon....

http://static.deliciouslynerdy.com/tarsnap/styles.png

Re: Tarsnap logo contest

#98

Post by cperciva »

SwellJoe wrote: post #65
cperciva wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

portsnap = SNAPshots of the FreeBSD PORTs tree tarsnap = TAR backups, in a SNAPshotted model (vs. incremental backups). I also liked the fact that it reminded FreeBSD users of portsnap, which is a very popular tool.

I understood the name immediately, but always considered it an awful name for most "normal" users. But, maybe UNIX culture will win in the end and "tar" will become a word everyone knows.

Tarsnap users almost always already know what tar is. The fact that tarsnap has a tar command line -- i.e., one they already know -- is a big deal for a lot of tarsnap users.

Re: Tarsnap logo contest

#99

Post by prawn »

cperciva wrote: post #40
AnotherDesigner wrote: post #34

I've wrote about this a few times on HN before. You guys like to downvote me every time I do but here we go again ... Good designers, the ones you want if this is important to you, don't do contests. We have families to feed and bills to pay. "Winning" a popularity contest, not based on substance but instead on style, doesn't allow us to support ourself and our families doing our work. So, who are the designers doing…

Good designers, the ones you want if this is important to you, don't do contests. I'm not looking for a good designer. I'm looking for a hacker (ideally a unix hacker) who happens to have some design skills.

"Anyone here a half decent designer? I want to pay someone $500 to make me a logo."

Re: Tarsnap logo contest

#100

Post by miloshadzic »

tptacek wrote: post #50
rcgs wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To pay someone $500 and then not want to spend an hour with them making them understand your product/idea/whatever seems like a bit of a waste of money to me, likely making the results hit and miss. Or have I misunderstood and you're saying that for $500 finding a designer than can hold that conversation is unlikely?

I think he will have a hard time getting a qualified designer to take a $500 project seriously. I have no doubt he can get something for $500, but it won't be something he likes.

You are right if you focus solely on designers from countries with a high cost of living. I'm pretty sure the friend who did my little shop's logo(you can see it at http://rightfold.io) could make something that Colin likes for less than 500$.
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