Nicotine as a useful stimulant • Hacker News Board

Re: Nicotine as a useful stimulant

#101

Post by maxander » Sat, Sep 28, 2013, 5:04 AM UTC

gwern wrote: post #82

maxander wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its possible I've missed something? I don't have time to read all the papers you cite, but from titles/abstracts they all appear to be talking about the effects of MAOIs. If there are separate substances in play I've somehow managed to read your article and completely miss any mention of them.

> Its possible I've missed something? I don't have time to read all the papers you cite, but from titles/abstracts they all appear to be talking about the effects of MAOIs. Well, yes, what exactly else would you expect papers to be about when someone claims that nicotine+MAOIs is different from just nicotine...? Presumably the papers are going to have titles like "Monoamine Oxidase Inhibition Dramatically Increases t…

Perhaps I wasn't very clear; in your article, you contrast the apparent non-addictiveness of pure nicotine with, to quote directly, "the addictiveness coming from MAOIs & other compounds present in tobacco." And it is precisely the latter part of the phrase "MAOIs & other compounds" that I was asking about when I said "other compounds."

The implication seemed to be that there were other things beyond MAOIs in tobacco that were (or helped nicotine to be) addictive; is that not the case?

Re: Nicotine as a useful stimulant

#102

Post by mistercow » Sat, Sep 28, 2013, 5:55 AM UTC

jcromartie wrote: post #22

I don't know, but I think cigar and pipe smoking are a perfectly valid way to get nicotine on your own terms while avoiding addiction. I have never seen someone cowering in the rain cradling a big cigar to get their fix.

I used to smoke Black and Milds exclusively, and you would have found me out in the rain smoking mine. I was completely addicted to them. And of course there's no pharmacological reason to think that cigars or pipes would be less addictive than any other form of tobacco. The reason that you don't see people smoking them as often is that they aren't the social norm for smoking in public.

If you want a way to take in nicotine with lower risk of addiction, get an e-cig.

Re: Nicotine as a useful stimulant

#103

Post by mistercow » Sat, Sep 28, 2013, 5:56 AM UTC

Nicotine is an excellent salve for ugh fields, if you aren't addicted. Once you're addicted, it's an OK salve.

Re: Nicotine as a useful stimulant

#104

Post by dajohnson89 » Sat, Sep 28, 2013, 6:05 AM UTC

Throwadev wrote: post #26

lolwutf wrote: post #5

From anecdotal experience, nicotine has quite a similar effect to amphetamine (therapeutic dosing.. i.e. Adderall). Nicotine, in low doses, by itself (i.e. outside of tobacco, which contains MAOIs, which potentiate nicotine's effects), is not terribly addictive. I'll occasionally supplement it for a few days at a time, then stop. I would caution anyone supplementing nicotine NEVER to smoke tobacco, at the same time.…

What kind of bad stuff with gum? After reading gwern i started trying out gum and it's nice. I have no cravings and never have to or want to consume more than a single gum per day. Most of the time it's a quarter or half a chiclet + headphones and a clean desk to get me into a 2-4 hour coding session. I'm worried about if it will damage my oral health or anything though. Will it?

There is a LOT of anecdotal evidence that chewing nicotine gum causes hair loss [0].

I chewed nicotine gum for 3 months, 3 pieces a day. My hair is too short to notice any loss, but I was quite aware if just an overall deterioration of my mouth. Eroding gums, thinning enamel, and yellowing teeth color. Yuck.

I really suggest electronic cigs over gum...

0: http://www.askapatient.com/mobile/viewrating.asp?drug=18612&...

Re: Nicotine as a useful stimulant

#105

Post by jmcgough » Sat, Sep 28, 2013, 6:24 AM UTC

lolwutf wrote: post #63

Throwadev wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of bad stuff with gum? After reading gwern i started trying out gum and it's nice. I have no cravings and never have to or want to consume more than a single gum per day. Most of the time it's a quarter or half a chiclet + headphones and a clean desk to get me into a 2-4 hour coding session. I'm worried about if it will damage my oral health or anything though. Will it?

You can do a couple pieces of day, with no problem, IME. Chew it up well and let it sit in your lip for optimal absorption. That said, when nicotine is exposed to oral tissues, it may be promoting: -oral cancer Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20338106 -gingivitis Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20337880 -receding gums Source: don't have a specific study handy, but this high-level review mentions…

The first study doesn't say that it causes oral cancer, but can cause resistance to chemotherapy. Additionally, that study is of smokers.

Re: Nicotine as a useful stimulant

#106

Post by jmcgough » Sat, Sep 28, 2013, 6:32 AM UTC

plasmacaster wrote: post #40

I've read about supposed benefits of nicotine a while ago and got myself an electronic cigarette. I have never smoked before. Not sure if there are any mental benefits. I feel a bit more relaxed right after vaping. No ill effects whatsoever. I made a few week to month long breaks to see if there would be any addiction - there was none. I was able to stop at any time. It's sort of like snacking for me, but without the…

Same. I'm very against smoking, but nicotine itself is likely not carcinogenic (though I'm concerned about heart disease - the studies I've read aren't conclusive but suggest it's a potential danger). I'll actually forget about it for days at a time, and don't refill it frequently, so I'm not too concerned about addiction. The mental effects are great for focus and it helps me to eat less.

Re: Nicotine as a useful stimulant

#107

Post by drunkenfly » Sat, Sep 28, 2013, 7:39 AM UTC

a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #66

JPKab wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, so can you, or someone, explain "Swedish snus" to me? I'm curious, because whenever I have put any kind of American "dip" tobacco product in my mouth, my salivary glands go fucking nuclear and I end up drooling or spitting like a redneck. Does Swedish snus made in some way so that this doesn't happen? If so, I need to try it!

Snus is still a mess that involves spitting. I prefer nasal snuff, to the extent I use anything. It can be totally discrete, even to someone right next to you as you take a pinch. You just have to blow and wipe your nose about 20 minutes after a pinch. Alternatively, a small pinch of certain finely ground and dry nasal snuff can be taken in the mouth like snus, but it still doesn't involve spitting. Swish it around y…

Swedish snus in packets doesn't involve any spitting. It is totally discrete, even more than nasal snuff.

Re: Nicotine as a useful stimulant

#108

Post by tommorris » Sat, Sep 28, 2013, 8:22 AM UTC

jrockway wrote: post #92

toddrew wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started vaping this year. I love it. I've got a usb passthrough that just plugs in and I can sit in a co-working space and smoke and work. It gets some funny looks, but also starts some fun conversations.

Agree about the funny looks. I was on the 1 train last weekend, and someone took an e-cigarette out of her purse and started smoking. My first thought was, "OMG this is so illegal, I can't believe someone could think it's OK to light up on the train!" Then I realized it was an e-cigarette. I imagine e-cigarette smokers must get this stunned reaction quite frequently.

Friend of mine switched to e-cigs a while back to try and quit. She seems to be doing pretty well. I met her at an airport terminal just before a transatlantic flight and she was complaining that the airlines don't let you use e-cigs on the plane.

I did double take when I saw her e-smoking in the terminal though. ;)

Re: Nicotine as a useful stimulant

#109

Post by Nux » Sat, Sep 28, 2013, 8:57 AM UTC

You don't need nicotine under any form, believe me. Just stay away from it.

It's not healthy, it's filthy.

Re: Nicotine as a useful stimulant

#110

Post by rmrfrmrf » Sat, Sep 28, 2013, 9:13 AM UTC

lolwutf wrote: post #5

From anecdotal experience, nicotine has quite a similar effect to amphetamine (therapeutic dosing.. i.e. Adderall). Nicotine, in low doses, by itself (i.e. outside of tobacco, which contains MAOIs, which potentiate nicotine's effects), is not terribly addictive. I'll occasionally supplement it for a few days at a time, then stop. I would caution anyone supplementing nicotine NEVER to smoke tobacco, at the same time.…

Hence why I think the "ADHD Overdiagnosis Epidemic" in the USA is bullshit -- the fact of the matter is that 45% of the USA smoked in the 1950s, a number which has since been cut in half [1]. Considering the hypothesis that intoxication is a basic human need, it stands to reason that, given the stigmatization and taxation of tobacco, that we're now just relying on amphetamine rather than nicotine. I'd suggest that ADHD has been engrained in American life for at least a century, the difference being that, up until 10-20 years ago, we had a readily-accessible, socially-acceptable medication for it.

[1] http://www.gallup.com/poll/109048/us-smoking-rate-still-comi...

[2] Siegel, Ronald K (2005). Intoxication: The Universal Drive for Mind-Altering Substances. Park Street Press, Rochester, Vermont. ISBN 1-59477-069-7.