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Steam Controller

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Re: Steam Controller

#251

Post by skorgu »

mbrubeck wrote: post #186
deletes wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by having an extra plane. The mouse already covers a 2d surface, how would an extra plane help you with that? The analog trackpad does have an advantage over a keyboard but not over a mouse, i think.

In a typical keyboard+mouse FPS game, for example, you get 2D analog "look" controls with the mouse, but much more limited 2D "move" controls with the keyboard. With two analog sticks/trackpads/mice/etc. you can get the same range of control over both. That's what the two "planes" give you.

To expand on this:

In most FPSes your move commands are binary, "W" or nothing. You can alter them a bit with combinations, Shift-W to sprint or perhaps Ctrl-W to crawl but you're still limited to a handful of preset speeds.

I could easily imagine being able to use a continuous axis to encapsulate walk/jog/sprint being quite a bit more intuitive and precise.

Re: Steam Controller

#252

Post by xanderstrike »

amalcon wrote: post #19
eterm wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laptops all moved from nipples to trackpads a long time ago, surely if analog sticks could provide higher resolution then that wouldn't have happened, or there would have been a move back?

Not all . Lenovo still provides eraser nub-style pointers on many models. I personally find them to be more accurate at high speeds than a touchpad. I actually have no idea how people can use touchpads. You need a huge one to be able to go corner-to-corner in one swipe and still have reasonable accuracy.

I've played 1000+ hours of Minecraft on my Thinkpad. That would be torture with a touchpad but it's a joy with the nub (which is basically a very small joystick). Why they went with touchpads over traditional dual-joystick input with community managed zero configuration mouse-keyboard emulation I really don't understand.

Re: Steam Controller

#253

Post by teach »

mikelat wrote: post #183
jiggy2011 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're in a better position to try it. If Sony released an unpopular controller with their new console it could cost them billions in console sales. If this doesn't work, valve can forget about it and move on HL3.

Nintendo took a big risk for the Wii and reaped the rewards. From a consumer standpoint I want to see progress and change, that's what interests me. A lot of gaming these days seems to be taking the less risky route of making endless sequels and never mixing anything up as not to upset their core audience who apparently hates change.

And they took another big risk with the WiiU, which may end up being their undoing as a console manufacturer.

Re: Steam Controller

#254

Post by kelvie »

Pxtl wrote: post #194
gosukiwi wrote: post #179

I highly doubt you can play dota without a keyboard and mouse, but it surely can work for other games :)

Dota 2 will likely be one of the flagships of this thing. I don't know how well it will work - likely you won't make it to the top of the league with this. But you can be damned well sure that Valve had Dota 2 in mind when they made this, and they will do everything possible to make Dota 2 play nicely on it.

I can last hit OK with a trackball (after some getting used to, thanks to RSI), but edge scrolling is difficult.

With two trackballs, perhaps one of the wheels can be used for moving the screen, and the other for moving the mouse.

They've implemented a "chat-wheel" with common in-game phrases to help with communications as well, which seems to be a perfect fit for controller play.

I just can't wait for the day where I can invite people over, buy an 80" TV, and play Dota 2 split screened on controllers!

Re: Steam Controller

#255

Post by laeus »

paulgerhardt wrote: post #170

I got to hold one of these a few months ago. It's solid. The ergonomics are there. The same designer[1] was previously at {one of the other three very large gaming console manufacturers} and knows a thing or two about controllers. My understanding is it will be significantly more accurate than traditional joysticks and competitive with a mouse (with a mouse you have a single 'large' plane of motion, with this, you ha…

I got a chance to try this out with a first-person shooter. I was not very happy with it. It felt worse than mouse+keyboard and simultaneously worse than dual-analog gamepads. Everybody in the room had issues calibrating and re-centering themselves. I'm sure it gets better with more use, but that's just the problem: it fails a fundamental usability test, because the initial experience of using it is pretty awful and requires a significant learning curve to achieve results that aren't necessarily or obviously better than either of the current standards.

Re: Steam Controller

#256

Post by YokoZar »

anonymous wrote: post #237
Coincoin wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not as trivial as you might think. We tried that relative-to-an-absolute scheme on our iPhone FPS and it was very confusing. The best scheme was a relative-to-a-relative center where the origin would "follow" the thumb, but then we had a full screen to do that. The problem with a relative-to-an-absolute scheme (even one with the little raised circle) is you have no idea where the thumb is until you touch the con…

Presumably you won't ever raise your thumb from the circle, therefore never losing your place.

You'll need to hit the other buttons eventually

Re: Steam Controller

#257

Post by Arkeus »

kibwen wrote: post #116

Are those buttons on the back of the controller? I'd be ecstatic if that's the case. I've always suspected that having buttons on the back would allow for a more natural grip than shunting buttons onto the shoulders. It may have made sense for the SNES' flat bone controller, but not in the age of controllers with thick, ergonomic palm grips.

> There are a total of sixteen buttons on the Steam Controller. Half of them are accessible to the player without requiring thumbs to be lifted from the trackpads, including two on the back.

Yes, looks like both of those are triggers (or buttons) on the back.

Re: Steam Controller

#258

Post by lnanek2 »

Multiple dual axis haptics is interesting. Also an absolute position touchpad for looking around could actually be the fastest way to look at a particular position. Plus an LCD. Very interesting. Definitely not just an also ran.

Re: Steam Controller

#259

Post by mistercow »

>n order to avoid forcing players to divide their attention between screens, a critical feature of the Steam Controller comes from its deep integration with Steam. When a player touches the controller screen, its display is overlayed on top of the game they’re playing, allowing the player to leave their attention squarely on the action, where it belongs.

OK, that solves that problem, so I agree with the decision, but why even have a screen on the controller then? Seems like an unnecessary added cost, when most players will never actually look at it.

Re: Steam Controller

#260

Post by vacri »

laeus wrote: post #255
paulgerhardt wrote: post #170

I got to hold one of these a few months ago. It's solid. The ergonomics are there. The same designer[1] was previously at {one of the other three very large gaming console manufacturers} and knows a thing or two about controllers. My understanding is it will be significantly more accurate than traditional joysticks and competitive with a mouse (with a mouse you have a single 'large' plane of motion, with this, you ha…

I got a chance to try this out with a first-person shooter. I was not very happy with it. It felt worse than mouse+keyboard and simultaneously worse than dual-analog gamepads. Everybody in the room had issues calibrating and re-centering themselves. I'm sure it gets better with more use, but that's just the problem: it fails a fundamental usability test, because the initial experience of using it is pretty awful and…

My first impression on viewing the controller is that reporting the 'location' of the thumb is going to be hard. Unlike a joystick or mouse that has a well-defined point, the thumb touches over a large area. You can find the centroid of this area - and the area will change size and shape as the thumb is rolled around. Different people will roll their thumbs differently, and there may be a mismatch between intent and physical interaction.

It'll be interesting to see how well they manage to deal with this.

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