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Steam Controller

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Re: Steam Controller

#231

Post by kayoone »

alexeisadeski3 wrote: post #196
paulgerhardt wrote: post #170

I got to hold one of these a few months ago. It's solid. The ergonomics are there. The same designer[1] was previously at {one of the other three very large gaming console manufacturers} and knows a thing or two about controllers. My understanding is it will be significantly more accurate than traditional joysticks and competitive with a mouse (with a mouse you have a single 'large' plane of motion, with this, you ha…

> For Valve to bring PC gaming to your TV/Couch, they really needed to nail the interface. I don't understand the problem with traditional mouse+kb for couch gaming. I've been using it for years and haven't encountered any drawbacks (using wireless mouse+kb combo). Am able to play online FPS and RTS, both of which require extreme precision and extreme low latency, at very high levels. You use a solid mousemat, place…

But most console players dont want to use their KB + mouse in the living room, it just doesnt feel right. I know i wouldnt, and i love playing PC games with keyboard and mouse..but if im playing a serious FPS that needs decent KB+ mouse controls i do that on my desk, on the couch i would just be crippled. Anyway this isnt really their market, they want to make PC games playable in the living room for the masses, which would be a huge achievement if this works.

Re: Steam Controller

#232

Post by devx »

alexeisadeski3 wrote: post #196
paulgerhardt wrote: post #170

I got to hold one of these a few months ago. It's solid. The ergonomics are there. The same designer[1] was previously at {one of the other three very large gaming console manufacturers} and knows a thing or two about controllers. My understanding is it will be significantly more accurate than traditional joysticks and competitive with a mouse (with a mouse you have a single 'large' plane of motion, with this, you ha…

> For Valve to bring PC gaming to your TV/Couch, they really needed to nail the interface. I don't understand the problem with traditional mouse+kb for couch gaming. I've been using it for years and haven't encountered any drawbacks (using wireless mouse+kb combo). Am able to play online FPS and RTS, both of which require extreme precision and extreme low latency, at very high levels. You use a solid mousemat, place…

You can have a laid back, more clutter-free experience with a controller in front of a TV - and the TV experience is meant to be laid back, anyway.

Re: Steam Controller

#233

Post by [deleted] »

ncallaway wrote: post #220
alexeisadeski3 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, why not find a solution which incorporates mouse+kb instead of avoiding it? Would console-ers really be too put off by an elegant solution? And the problem here is not negligible. CoD series games will be miserable to play with a gamepad versus mouse+kb'ers, and those games would likely be quite popular on SteamBox.

"I don't understand the problem with traditional mouse+kb for couch gaming" "why not find a solution which incorporates mouse+kb instead of avoiding it?" It sounds like they feel the same way to do. Mouse + Keyboard is already viable across a very wide spectrum of games. They don't need "a solution which incorporates mouse+kb", because that already is a solution (as you note, there's no real problem there). However,…

[deleted]

Re: Steam Controller

#234

Post by anonymous »

paulgerhardt wrote: post #170

I got to hold one of these a few months ago. It's solid. The ergonomics are there. The same designer[1] was previously at {one of the other three very large gaming console manufacturers} and knows a thing or two about controllers. My understanding is it will be significantly more accurate than traditional joysticks and competitive with a mouse (with a mouse you have a single 'large' plane of motion, with this, you ha…

I don't see how my right thumb could be as precise as moving the mouse, which I do with all 5 of my fingers (for tiny movements) or from my shoulder (for larger movements). If thumb touchpads were good for FPS games, how come nobody is playing them with their thumb on their laptop's touchpad? Maybe I'm just old, but I don't see myself ever being able to use this.

Re: Steam Controller

#235

Post by sigkill »

NoodleIncident wrote: post #74
Osiris wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate touchpads. I use an external mouse with my Macbook. I have a Dell D830 with the nub pointer and it was so much easier to use, especially considering that you don't have to remove your hands from the keyboard and your finger doesn't need to cross 3 inches of space to move across the screen.

I've always been confused by this argument. I can reach my trackpad with my right thumb without moving any of my other fingers off of the home row. Is this an unusual amount of flexibility?

I don't get that argument either. My main case for the eraser-nub-mouse is that I don't have to physically move my finger over and over again. It goes like this, put finger in one corner, drag finger, reach end of touch surface, lift finger, put finger again on the opposite side, drag again... until you reach destination.

Re: Steam Controller

#236

Post by psc »

alexeisadeski3 wrote: post #217
notatoad wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They explicitly aren't trying to replace the mouse and keyboard. they're just trying to make an option available for people who want a controller. if you like a mouse and keyboard, good for you, keep using it. from the product page FAQ: " I’m a happy Steam customer happily using my happy mouse and keyboard. I don’t want a controller? You can’t make a sentence into a question by just putting a question-mark at the end…

Again, why not find a solution which incorporates mouse+kb instead of avoiding it? Would console-ers really be too put off by an elegant solution? And the problem here is not negligible. CoD series games will be miserable to play with a gamepad versus mouse+kb'ers, and those games would likely be quite popular on SteamBox.

There are certain games that work better with controllers—the best example I can think of is Mirror's Edge. I would be upset if I couldn't use a controller, because sometimes you need joysticks.

Re: Steam Controller

#237

Post by anonymous »

Coincoin wrote: post #227
cheald wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can trivially replicate joystick behavior with a touchpad - note how the controller has a raise "home" circle in the middle. This is almost certainly so that it can be used as a joystick, where the input is based on how far from center the thumb is, rather than the thumb's absolute position on the touchpad.

It's not as trivial as you might think. We tried that relative-to-an-absolute scheme on our iPhone FPS and it was very confusing. The best scheme was a relative-to-a-relative center where the origin would "follow" the thumb, but then we had a full screen to do that. The problem with a relative-to-an-absolute scheme (even one with the little raised circle) is you have no idea where the thumb is until you touch the con…

Presumably you won't ever raise your thumb from the circle, therefore never losing your place.

Re: Steam Controller

#238

Post by alexeisadeski3 »

comex wrote: post #229
alexeisadeski3 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For Valve to bring PC gaming to your TV/Couch, they really needed to nail the interface. I don't understand the problem with traditional mouse+kb for couch gaming. I've been using it for years and haven't encountered any drawbacks (using wireless mouse+kb combo). Am able to play online FPS and RTS, both of which require extreme precision and extreme low latency, at very high levels. You use a solid mousemat, place…

I don't doubt that this controller design likely won't cut it for precision FPS play. On the flipside, however, having a giant keyboard, plus a mousemat taking up space (and to work well, a mouse needs a significant amount of space) and flopping around when people sit up and down on the couch may work for hardcore gamers, but it's likely a non-starter for anyone else. Even if you integrated the mouse so it could be o…

Fair enough.

I suppose my "complaint" is that they could do a better job of bridging the gap, but perhaps I am wrong. You do make a good point that the mouse+kb may be too cumbersome for some (most?) consoler switchers.

I do wish that I could see what sort of solution Valve could come up with if forced to keep the primary mouse+kb, though. Some sort of streamlined solution which you partly imagine in your post.

Re: Steam Controller

#239

Post by hayksaakian »

anonymous wrote: post #234
paulgerhardt wrote: post #170

I got to hold one of these a few months ago. It's solid. The ergonomics are there. The same designer[1] was previously at {one of the other three very large gaming console manufacturers} and knows a thing or two about controllers. My understanding is it will be significantly more accurate than traditional joysticks and competitive with a mouse (with a mouse you have a single 'large' plane of motion, with this, you ha…

I don't see how my right thumb could be as precise as moving the mouse, which I do with all 5 of my fingers (for tiny movements) or from my shoulder (for larger movements). If thumb touchpads were good for FPS games, how come nobody is playing them with their thumb on their laptop's touchpad? Maybe I'm just old, but I don't see myself ever being able to use this.

Long time users of trackball mice will disagree with you

http://mobile.logitech.com/en-us/mice-pointers/trackballs

Re: Steam Controller

#240

Post by 9999 »

This looks absolutely fantastic, but it's a bit of a shame that they will only be distributing them with the 300 beta kits. It would be nice if they could get more of them out into the wild so people can actually hold one and see how it feels. The only thing I cared about at E3 this year was seeing how the PS4 and Xbox One controllers actually felt in use.

It's interesting that they seem to have designed it largely to be used with existing game designs and input requirements in mind, but they've also made something that can create totally new input patterns and uses. The clickable joysticks on the playstation and xbox controllers were sadly never fully usable by designers because they don't work in a scenario where you want the player to click and hold but still be able to navigate with the stick. Obviously the haptic trackpad solves the click and drag to select mechanism that an RTS demands, but think of all of the other things that a click, hold and drag might be able to do in something like a boxing game, an FPS, a shmup (dual stick ikaruga on one pad with a game designed for it?) or even something like QWOP.

I really hope they make this available to more people.

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