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Nicotine as a useful stimulant

gwern.net

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Re: Nicotine as a useful stimulant

#61

Post by JPKab »

whalesalad wrote: post #2

I can't imagine life without stimulants. I hope to move off into the woods one day and live a completely natural lifestyle for a while. Reset myself. No caffeine, no nicotine, no amphetamines. Just me, a dog, and a nice ranch property in the middle of nowhere. Meanwhile, nicotine is a staple of my day-to-day. I quit smoking a long time ago, now I stick to Swedish snus and vaping. For a period I was chewing gum too. D…

Ok, so can you, or someone, explain "Swedish snus" to me? I'm curious, because whenever I have put any kind of American "dip" tobacco product in my mouth, my salivary glands go fucking nuclear and I end up drooling or spitting like a redneck.

Does Swedish snus made in some way so that this doesn't happen? If so, I need to try it!

Re: Nicotine as a useful stimulant

#62

Post by Leon »

agumonkey wrote: post #55
cnp wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought the eGO-T (meant for vaporizing plant matter) with a secondary nicotine adapter. In the US you can find both products at nearly every smoke shop. One thing that really makes a difference is that the vaporized nicotine is actually somewhat hot, like cigarette smoke, when you breathe it in. Standard pre-packaged e-cigarettes didn't cut it for me specifically for this reason.

And the nicotine refill are pure nicotine ? no weird additives ? You mean pre-packaged e-cigs provide a bad user experience with 'cold' vapor ?

It's not pure nicotine, but a mixture of propylene glycol or vegetable glycol, flavoring, and then nicotine.

Some of the off the shelf disposable / prepackaged e-cigs aren't powerful enough to have a strong vaporization of the solution. When you're refilling yourself, it becomes substantially cheaper (maybe a few dollars for a month of heavy usage?), and with the higher end kits you can program your voltage / amperage settings on curves for your preference as you in inhale.

Re: Nicotine as a useful stimulant

#63

Post by lolwutf »

Throwadev wrote: post #26
lolwutf wrote: post #5

From anecdotal experience, nicotine has quite a similar effect to amphetamine (therapeutic dosing.. i.e. Adderall). Nicotine, in low doses, by itself (i.e. outside of tobacco, which contains MAOIs, which potentiate nicotine's effects), is not terribly addictive. I'll occasionally supplement it for a few days at a time, then stop. I would caution anyone supplementing nicotine NEVER to smoke tobacco, at the same time.…

What kind of bad stuff with gum? After reading gwern i started trying out gum and it's nice. I have no cravings and never have to or want to consume more than a single gum per day. Most of the time it's a quarter or half a chiclet + headphones and a clean desk to get me into a 2-4 hour coding session. I'm worried about if it will damage my oral health or anything though. Will it?

You can do a couple pieces of day, with no problem, IME. Chew it up well and let it sit in your lip for optimal absorption.

That said, when nicotine is exposed to oral tissues, it may be promoting:

-oral cancer

Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20338106

-gingivitis

Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20337880

-receding gums

Source: don't have a specific study handy, but this high-level review mentions it, and other issues: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2933534/

Keep in mind, these are all slight chances. If you do this regularly for years, it may be of concern. Every once in a while? No biggie.

Patch will get you around all of these, specific issues at least. There's still that whole 'carcinogenic, overall' thing.

Re: Nicotine as a useful stimulant

#64

Post by smosher »

maxander wrote: post #37

If nicotine is supposedly "not highly addictive," what heretofore obscure, hideous compounds are lurking in cigarettes that accounts for their legendary addictiveness? MAOIs? True, they give withdrawal symptoms. But despite being a widely used pharmaceutical, to my knowledge no MAOI-only drug has seen anything resembling the abuse patterns of tobacco. The hand-wavy "other compounds" that the article mentions and then…

I've never heard someone talk about MAOIs in isolation before. You do realize the point of these is to affect other drugs right?

Re: Nicotine as a useful stimulant

#65

Post by [deleted] »

michaelwww wrote: post #16
whalesalad wrote: post #2

I can't imagine life without stimulants. I hope to move off into the woods one day and live a completely natural lifestyle for a while. Reset myself. No caffeine, no nicotine, no amphetamines. Just me, a dog, and a nice ranch property in the middle of nowhere. Meanwhile, nicotine is a staple of my day-to-day. I quit smoking a long time ago, now I stick to Swedish snus and vaping. For a period I was chewing gum too. D…

Snus is an awesome alternative to smoking. I've tried chew and nicotine lozenges, but snus is a happy medium. I've come up with a way to get off nicotine, which I do from time to time: dissolve about 8 nicotine lozenges in a bottle of water. Take a sip when craving hits. The craving goes away immediately. ymmv.

[deleted]

Re: Nicotine as a useful stimulant

#66

Post by a8da6b0c91d »

JPKab wrote: post #61
whalesalad wrote: post #2

I can't imagine life without stimulants. I hope to move off into the woods one day and live a completely natural lifestyle for a while. Reset myself. No caffeine, no nicotine, no amphetamines. Just me, a dog, and a nice ranch property in the middle of nowhere. Meanwhile, nicotine is a staple of my day-to-day. I quit smoking a long time ago, now I stick to Swedish snus and vaping. For a period I was chewing gum too. D…

Ok, so can you, or someone, explain "Swedish snus" to me? I'm curious, because whenever I have put any kind of American "dip" tobacco product in my mouth, my salivary glands go fucking nuclear and I end up drooling or spitting like a redneck. Does Swedish snus made in some way so that this doesn't happen? If so, I need to try it!

Snus is still a mess that involves spitting. I prefer nasal snuff, to the extent I use anything. It can be totally discrete, even to someone right next to you as you take a pinch. You just have to blow and wipe your nose about 20 minutes after a pinch. Alternatively, a small pinch of certain finely ground and dry nasal snuff can be taken in the mouth like snus, but it still doesn't involve spitting. Swish it around your mouth for a couple minutes and then swallow.

Re: Nicotine as a useful stimulant

#67

Post by sliverstorm »

tarikjn wrote: post #47
maxander wrote: post #37

If nicotine is supposedly "not highly addictive," what heretofore obscure, hideous compounds are lurking in cigarettes that accounts for their legendary addictiveness? MAOIs? True, they give withdrawal symptoms. But despite being a widely used pharmaceutical, to my knowledge no MAOI-only drug has seen anything resembling the abuse patterns of tobacco. The hand-wavy "other compounds" that the article mentions and then…

I believe what is described is that nicotine is a potent agent for habit-forming, so you don't get as much addicted to the nicotine itself as the habit you have formed while taking nicotine, ie. smoking. The article describe utilizing this process to one's advantage by taking safe forms of nicotine while forming desired habits or (i.e working, learning etc.).

you don't get as much addicted to the nicotine itself as the habit you have formed while taking nicotine

Supported by the fact that some smokers use straws and carrots to help quit.

Re: Nicotine as a useful stimulant

#69

Post by usethisonce »

1_player wrote: post #29
revelation wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No more blood pressure increase. You can probably also develop tolerance for the other effects of your chosen stimulant, but maybe not as rapidly.

I'd like to see some studies about it. I'm 26, I picked up smoking about 10 years ago (damn, that's a lot of time) and I have high blood pressure. That may also be due to genetic factors (both father, mother and grandmother with HBP). While my BP is usually around 150/90, the three times I quit smoking for more than a week I return to normal values, around 120/80. Just my N=1

I'm pretty active. I also drink maybe 3 glasses of wine a night, take 2 hydroxy cuts a day and smoke/dip. My BP as of last week was 110/80.

Re: Nicotine as a useful stimulant

#70

Post by jlgreco »

jcromartie wrote: post #22

I don't know, but I think cigar and pipe smoking are a perfectly valid way to get nicotine on your own terms while avoiding addiction. I have never seen someone cowering in the rain cradling a big cigar to get their fix.

I think the trick is just moderation. I go through about a single pack of cigarettes a year, typically only smoking during stressful or intense periods, typically over periods of time shorter than weekends. Seems to work out fine.
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