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Steam Controller

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Re: Steam Controller

#221

Post by [deleted] »

xvolter wrote: post #171
Arjuna wrote: post #124

"Steam gamers, who are used to the input associated with PCs, will appreciate that the Steam Controller's resolution approaches that of a desktop mouse." [...] "The Steam Controller is built around a new generation of super-precise haptic feedback, employing dual linear resonant actuators. These small, strong, weighted electro-magnets are attached to each of the dual trackpads." Wow. It sounds as though they have man…

I kept reading your comment expecting it to retort at some point; but no, you're interested in the controller. From the pictures, as it mentions nothing in text, it looks like they have setup dual zones on the trackpads. If they do allow user defined settings, I hope they will allow you to adjust different precisions on the areas - allowing for use of the outer ring as quicker turning, faster running and the inner ri…

[deleted]

Re: Steam Controller

#222

Post by roc »

NoodleIncident wrote: post #214
roc wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Albeit without any of the tactile value of the tension of an analog stick. [1] Nor an absolute, physically constrained, "max" position: where the stem of an analogue stick is pressed against the edge of its container. [2] A trackpad seems like it will very easily allow your thumb to drift from a position of sending maximally-distant-from-center input to not registering any input. That's going to be a huge usability p…

I'm guessing that that's what the outer circle is for, right? Your thumb feels the ridge, and that section of the pad is interpreted as maximal-distance input.

I'm not convinced how well that ridge is going to work over the course of, say, an FPS or platformer game session. For a strategy game or lower-pressure situation it's quite likely just fine. But for action games... maybe?

But the lack of tension is going to be a bummer for action games regardless.

Re: Steam Controller

#223

Post by marcosdumay »

BrianEatWorld wrote: post #106
cheald wrote: post #14

I'm actually pretty optimistic about this. It's a big divergence from current couch input schemes, and the open nature of it might mean that it'll be improved for ergonomics and whatnot. It's got some interesting promise. Best of all, worst case, I can fall back to my trusty 360 controllers and use those without a hitch, so even if this is a disaster, it doesn't sink the platform (as can be the case with other platfo…

I would say I am optimistic as well because, having been a dedicated "Big Picture" user for the past few months, it is clear Valve has put a lot of thought into this transition. However, what bothered me about the controller is that it doesn't seem to actually be that different. I don't see how this markedly improves over current controllers and their integration. The key genres for which the current controllers don'…

It has a mouse replacement for RTS and FPS, can emulate all the buttons for games that need buttons, and has 2 big analogic sticks for games that need them.

Looks like a nice new thing, not as different as the kinetic or wiimote, but not more of the same either.

Re: Steam Controller

#224

Post by digikata »

xvolter wrote: post #171
Arjuna wrote: post #124

"Steam gamers, who are used to the input associated with PCs, will appreciate that the Steam Controller's resolution approaches that of a desktop mouse." [...] "The Steam Controller is built around a new generation of super-precise haptic feedback, employing dual linear resonant actuators. These small, strong, weighted electro-magnets are attached to each of the dual trackpads." Wow. It sounds as though they have man…

I kept reading your comment expecting it to retort at some point; but no, you're interested in the controller. From the pictures, as it mentions nothing in text, it looks like they have setup dual zones on the trackpads. If they do allow user defined settings, I hope they will allow you to adjust different precisions on the areas - allowing for use of the outer ring as quicker turning, faster running and the inner ri…

The Valve page mostly talked about mechanical and electrical design openness, but if the input mapping api is open too, I'm sure they'll be as many mapping options as there are game mods.

Re: Steam Controller

#225

Post by gknoy »

Pxtl wrote: post #182
hackula1 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which means for an RTS game you would be no worse off than using a trackpad over a mouse. Just about anyone who plays RTSs would agree that trackpads are completely unacceptable for input. For a game like SC2, you might as well not even play, because you would be lose so badly at against anyone at a similar skill level.

I figure they're trying to be optimistc about it... it might not measure up to a mouse, of course, but either way it's a huge improvement. This device will get you from "this is completely unplayable" to "hey I can get through the single-player campaign and maybe do some co-op comp-stomping with my buds"

Exactly. They could even allow an option for only matching you with people with similar control configs for some games.

Re: Steam Controller

#226

Post by ProblemFactory »

zanny wrote: post #216
icambron wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting that most hardcore console gamers use a keyboard and mouse? I don't think that's true... Edit: Rereading your comment, I guess you might mean PC gamers who are sitting on their couches. I don't think that's the market this is after; it's trying to get console gamers onto Steam by providing them a cool new product that will work well with the games they have. This makes that a much smaller shift for…

Any game with a PC version that is vetted as a competitive esport will find its pc version, with superior and portable control interfaces, to be the choice for competition. See: CoD, Battlefield, Quake, etc. All prefer exact aiming with a mouse over fudging analog input sticks with aim assist. By your wording, no, console gamers don't use keyboards / mice, because the games they play on consoles are not compatible wi…

The major difference between a mouse and a controller stick is the type of input.

Mouse is a pointing input - for a movement of 1 unit, your view changes by 1 unit. If you stop moving the mouse, your view stops moving.

Controller stick is a velocity input - for a movement of 1 unit, your view starts moving at a speed of 1 unit. If you bring the stick back to center, your view stops moving.

It could be that the Steam controller trackpad is precise enough to be a pointing input sensor, which could enable precise aiming. But it's too early to tell before the first reviews are out.

Re: Steam Controller

#227

Post by Coincoin »

cheald wrote: post #140
Arelius wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The goal is to provide the some precision that a mouse can, not replicate sticks... If that were the case, they would have just put sticks on the thing.

You can trivially replicate joystick behavior with a touchpad - note how the controller has a raise "home" circle in the middle. This is almost certainly so that it can be used as a joystick, where the input is based on how far from center the thumb is, rather than the thumb's absolute position on the touchpad.

It's not as trivial as you might think.

We tried that relative-to-an-absolute scheme on our iPhone FPS and it was very confusing. The best scheme was a relative-to-a-relative center where the origin would "follow" the thumb, but then we had a full screen to do that.

The problem with a relative-to-an-absolute scheme (even one with the little raised circle) is you have no idea where the thumb is until you touch the control but then it's too late.

Not saying it can't be done, it's just a little bit tricky.

Re: Steam Controller

#228

Post by Karzyn »

kibwen wrote: post #116

Are those buttons on the back of the controller? I'd be ecstatic if that's the case. I've always suspected that having buttons on the back would allow for a more natural grip than shunting buttons onto the shoulders. It may have made sense for the SNES' flat bone controller, but not in the age of controllers with thick, ergonomic palm grips.

I'd say so. If you look at the sample Portal 2 Bindings [1] the labels on the bottom seem to pointing underneath the controller and in the disassembly image [2] there seems to be another button-looking piece in front of the bottom portion.

[1]: http://cdn2.store.steampowered.com/public/images/promo/livin... [2]: http://cdn2.store.steampowered.com/public/images/promo/livin...

Re: Steam Controller

#229

Post by comex »

alexeisadeski3 wrote: post #196
paulgerhardt wrote: post #170

I got to hold one of these a few months ago. It's solid. The ergonomics are there. The same designer[1] was previously at {one of the other three very large gaming console manufacturers} and knows a thing or two about controllers. My understanding is it will be significantly more accurate than traditional joysticks and competitive with a mouse (with a mouse you have a single 'large' plane of motion, with this, you ha…

> For Valve to bring PC gaming to your TV/Couch, they really needed to nail the interface. I don't understand the problem with traditional mouse+kb for couch gaming. I've been using it for years and haven't encountered any drawbacks (using wireless mouse+kb combo). Am able to play online FPS and RTS, both of which require extreme precision and extreme low latency, at very high levels. You use a solid mousemat, place…

I don't doubt that this controller design likely won't cut it for precision FPS play. On the flipside, however, having a giant keyboard, plus a mousemat taking up space (and to work well, a mouse needs a significant amount of space) and flopping around when people sit up and down on the couch may work for hardcore gamers, but it's likely a non-starter for anyone else. Even if you integrated the mouse so it could be on your lap, it would still be a large ugly thing that's likely to fall down and is hard to use in many of the relaxed positions people are used to gaming in.

Re: Steam Controller

#230

Post by programminggeek »

alexeisadeski3 wrote: post #217
notatoad wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They explicitly aren't trying to replace the mouse and keyboard. they're just trying to make an option available for people who want a controller. if you like a mouse and keyboard, good for you, keep using it. from the product page FAQ: " I’m a happy Steam customer happily using my happy mouse and keyboard. I don’t want a controller? You can’t make a sentence into a question by just putting a question-mark at the end…

Again, why not find a solution which incorporates mouse+kb instead of avoiding it? Would console-ers really be too put off by an elegant solution? And the problem here is not negligible. CoD series games will be miserable to play with a gamepad versus mouse+kb'ers, and those games would likely be quite popular on SteamBox.

Because at some point, Valve is about making money, and people don't buy consoles and attach them to their tv with mouse and keyboard en masse. If they did, this wouldn't exist.

If you want/need to sell something in the millions, it kind of needs to be least common denominator. Gamers understand controllers as the basic interface for tv gaming, so they will buy them.

Gamers don't buy keyboards to put on their TV's so Valve is being smart by not forcing a square peg in a round hole. They want the Steam Machines to sell. A mouse and keyboard won't sell.

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