Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Have you ever felt inferior for not being from a name-brand college?

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 96 posts

Re: Ask HN: Have you ever felt inferior for not being from a name-brand college?

#41

Post by [deleted] »

philwelch wrote: post #18
johnnybgoode wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead of trying to define by example, let's use an actual definition: "A title of nobility grants special legal privileges to an individual at the expense of the rest of the people." If you have a different definition, that's fine, of course. Then we're just down to semantics, and I guess you could say I'm speaking metaphorically. But I hope you're not just excluding certain titles because they don't fit the precon…

Did you just make up that definition or do you have a citation? Because that definition isn't particularly useful: for instance, any elected or appointed office would then qualify as a "title of nobility"--a police officer has the legal privilege to execute warrants, detain people, and carry arms at the expense of the rest of the people (who must subsidize his training, equipment, operating expenses, and salary). Tha…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Have you ever felt inferior for not being from a name-brand college?

#42

Post by johnnybgoode »

joeyo wrote: post #37
johnnybgoode wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The state confers special privileges on degree holders that are denied to everyone else. It also regulates, funds, and grants degrees itself. Examples include credential requirements for many different occupations, licensing laws, and job eligibility. Of course, there are also the more "unofficial" effects of these policies. Credentialism is widespread in society thanks in no small part to the massive, state-funded s…

This is an interesting argument. Do you have an alternative method in mind for aiding people to figure out who might be qualified to perform certain types of skilled labor? For example, imagine that universities can no longer confer the noble title of medical doctor. How shall I determine who to select to remove my gallbladder?

Yes, and I'm sure others will, too. For example, perhaps, after the barriers have been removed, a new school has popped up which has a better way of training doctors. They are allowed to teach in ways that were not allowed before. Doctors from this school go on to perform exceptionally well and have a proven track record. You hear about them from satisfied patients and ratings organizations (like Consumer Reports). Their medical procedures are insured by a company that also highly recommends them. You select one of them.

Or, perhaps you prefer some sort of alternative medicine. Using whatever criteria you choose, you are allowed to have a procedure done regardless of whether or not your doctor has a title. After all, the majority is wrong sometimes.

Re: Ask HN: Have you ever felt inferior for not being from a name-brand college?

#44

Post by jstevens85 »

rg wrote: post #25
J_McQuade wrote: post #15

Well, it may be a little different in the UK due to our many-tiered higher education system (Oxbridge, redbricks, ex-polytechnics and a moderate spectrum in between), but I'll chip in my two copper pence either way. Actually, this is a question I've thought about a little too much, I'd wager, because, as a prospective undergraduate, I actually turned down an offer to read mathematics at Cambridge and decided to study…

Having lived in both the US and the UK, I'd observe that the prestige of one's university counts for MUCH more in the UK. To an American it is unbelieveable how much Brits focus on where they went to school (at all levels) rather than their abilities--and they are correct to do so, because other Brits use schools and universities as vital credentials. It's an aspect of the class system in the UK which doesn't exist i…

Yes, Brits may put more focus on which university you go to, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

In the UK, getting into Oxbridge is nowhere near as difficult as getting into Harvard, Yale, Princeton. There are 24,000 undergraduate spots at Oxbridge for 60 million Brits, compared to 17,000 spots at HYP for 300 million Americans.

Also, the application criteria at Oxbridge is far simpler. It is based entirely on academic potential. British universities are uninterested in extracurricular activities and "well-roundedness". In the US, very smart students with perfect grades are rejected from Harvard because they weren't editor of the school newspaper, because they got a D in History in 9th grade, or because they couldn't write a good essay about "If you were going to sing a song in a talent show, what would you sing and why?" That doesn't happen in the UK. If you are smart, work hard in school and get good grades, you'll get into Oxbridge. The same can't be said for getting into HYP.

All of the British universities are public, so there doesn't exist the situation where students may choose to go to Berkeley instead of UPenn because they want to save money, or because they were offered a scholarship.

Which university you attend in the UK tends to be a better indicator of intelligence and academic success than where you study in the US.

Re: Ask HN: Have you ever felt inferior for not being from a name-brand college?

#45

Post by endtime »

GavinB wrote: post #31

It never ends. Even at a "Name Brand" school you're still looking up at Harvard-Princeton-Yale. If you're there, you're looking up at the Rhodes scholars, valedictorians, and the "stars" of each department. You have to remember that once you go to some top-rated school, you're suddenly in an environment where everyone goes to that school, and it stops being special. Set goals that will get you to a place where you ca…

This is very true. I'm at a top "name brand" school for CS, and, honestly, when I look at myself next to someone from a good but less-well-known university (say, UW) who has done really interesting research, I feel inferior in a way. I guess it has something to do with this guy really being a star in a pretty good department, versus myself being a pretty typical student in a very strong department.

What I'm trying to get at is that while being from MIT or Stanford makes a good first impression, personal achievements say a lot more about you than the hand you were dealt by the extremely noisy college admissions process (consider this: I am a CS grad student at Stanford, and I was rejected from UMD and UMass Amherst for grad school).

Re: Ask HN: Have you ever felt inferior for not being from a name-brand college?

#46

Post by endtime »

mickt wrote: post #29
anigbrowl wrote: post #14

No, but I have felt inferior for not going to college. For a variety of mostly personal reasons, it didn't seem like a life-enhancing decision at the time (~25 years ago, in Ireland).

It's never too late! I went back to college and got a degree in Computer Science when I was 35.

Yeah, I've seen a few people in their 30s or 40s doing CS degrees, and I always respect them for it. Don't let your age stop you if it's something you want to do.

Re: Ask HN: Have you ever felt inferior for not being from a name-brand college?

#48

Post by philwelch »

johnnybgoode wrote: post #21
philwelch wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you just make up that definition or do you have a citation? Because that definition isn't particularly useful: for instance, any elected or appointed office would then qualify as a "title of nobility"--a police officer has the legal privilege to execute warrants, detain people, and carry arms at the expense of the rest of the people (who must subsidize his training, equipment, operating expenses, and salary). Tha…

You don't have to accuse me of lying or being dishonest. I admit the majority is on your side, but I'm more interested in accuracy than how useful something is for you. I'm not the first person to use such a definition. Here is one from over a century ago, from an opinion in a court case from Alabama: "To "confer a title of nobility" is to nominate to an order of persons to whom privileges are granted at the expense…

The words may be the same, but the meaning is significantly different, and I have little interest in whatever sophistry you intend to pursue in order to support your crankish opinion that university degrees are unconstitutional.

Incidentally, "nominate to an order of persons" is probably the operative text there, and is something that you probably neglected to include in your earlier definition. I do not think that Alabama court of a century ago, or indeed the drafters of the Constitution, intended university degrees to count as a title of nobility. Especially since many of them founded universities themselves.

Re: Ask HN: Have you ever felt inferior for not being from a name-brand college?

#49

Post by endtime »

lief79 wrote: post #28

Well, I choose public rather then Ivy, but it's not far behind. I generally feel better because I choose to get a similar education without going massively into debt. I figured I'd be going for a masters, at which point it wouldn't matter. At some point in time, I'm still thinking about getting a masters ... but Penn State would be a lot easier to get a company to pay for.

For what it's worth, I have a friend at Lockheed right now and they are paying for her master's at UPenn.
Post reply on HN