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A bachelor’s degree could cost $10,000 total. Here’s how

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Re: A bachelor’s degree could cost $10,000 total. Here’s how

#41

Post by uptown »

beagle3 wrote: post #12
aspensmonster wrote: post #7

How? Lower prices. Tuition+Fees used to hover around 10k total at public institutions.

The high prices are a symptom. The cause is cheap student loans: Since it is easy to get a loan, people will borrow as much as needed to get to the highest tier institution that will accept them. The private ones can thus increase their prices, and lure the staff with higher salaries. Now the public institutions need to level up salaries of professors and administrators, or they will leave for the private institution…

Quartz has some great charts showing the outstanding US Student Debt:

http://qz.com/search/student+debt

Re: A bachelor’s degree could cost $10,000 total. Here’s how

#42

Post by zaphoyd »

gph wrote: post #26

How I plan on getting a bachelor's degree for ~15k. 1. Go to a community college in a county that you are a resident for your two-year associates. The money I'm getting from Pell grants is paying my 18-credit hours per semester tuition right now (Roughly $120 per credit hour tuition). Books on top of that are costing me about 300 a semester (buy cheap old editions as much as possible). I've gotten scholarship money t…

My wife is doing this, and while I agree the price is actually sane, the service can be extremely poor and horribly demoralizing, especially if you are bright and used to getting things done. Even at the flagship campuses of a community college system. The administrative functions of the school are extremely poor. Some of the instructors are OK others are downright unqualified to teach anything. When there are problems with registration (putting her in the wrong classes), or with instructors (teaching things that are wrong and grading accordingly), or advising (she has had a new advisor almost every semester and the degree requirements change about as often), there is nobody to go to (they think you are another whiner that just wants to complain your way out of the rules) and no recourse other than suck it up and suffer through.

So far she is looking likely graduate with an associates degree free after tax incentives. She is quite disillusioned with the idea now though and many areas of study she was previously very interested in she cannot stand now because it brings up memories of wretched experiences with. I'm not sure she'll be able to stand another two years in this sort of environment though, it feels like such a waste of time to the point where no piece of paper could be worth this much punishment.

The difference between her experience and my recent one in a masters program at a top tier university (largely paid by my employer or else I wouldn't have bothered) is night and day. The facilities work. The administration works. You can take the classes you want and the registration system works. Everything can be done online without standing in lines. If you actually want to talk to a person you can walk in and do it rather than setting up an appointment a month in advance. Instructors teach current knowledge and get their facts mostly correct. If you ask them questions they can usually answer them. They treat you like a human being rather than a child they are there to babysit. The other students don't think you are a god because you can show up on time and do some homework.

I don't intend to generalize to all community colleges, I am sure there are some OK ones, but at least with the ones I've had experiences with you may have to deal with an unreasonable level of BS in exchange for the discounted tuition. Because of the way the in county / in state rules work you often can't shop around too much and may be stuck with whatever school is where you live.

Re: A bachelor’s degree could cost $10,000 total. Here’s how

#43

Post by oakaz »

10.000? Is this affordable for people who make no money? We're talking about people aged 18-22. Do they make money? How the hell is it fair to elect people by the wealth of their families?!

Come on people! Don't you see the huge discrimination?

This system is a blood sucker. Please demand a real change instead of dealing with it

Re: A bachelor’s degree could cost $10,000 total. Here’s how

#44

Post by gph »

pwthornton wrote: post #37
gph wrote: post #26

How I plan on getting a bachelor's degree for ~15k. 1. Go to a community college in a county that you are a resident for your two-year associates. The money I'm getting from Pell grants is paying my 18-credit hours per semester tuition right now (Roughly $120 per credit hour tuition). Books on top of that are costing me about 300 a semester (buy cheap old editions as much as possible). I've gotten scholarship money t…

The only issues I see with this is the peer effect, where students play to their playing field. Intelligent and motivated students placing themselves around less intelligent and less motivated students will often find themselves doing worse too, even up to not graduating. I myself know I am susceptible to this and try to push myself be being around other talented people. Not saying that there aren't intelligent and t…

Good points, I suppose I was looking at it from my POV. Even before I started going to college I've loved learning on my own and developed an enjoyment of computers, so it doesn't matter much to me motivationally who my classmates are. Not to sound cocky, but the Intro classes I'm going through are already below my knowledge level (except some of the Math). By the time I'm hitting the higher level courses I'll be at the 4-year university.

I guess it depends on the community college, but I imagine most of the larger ones in major metro areas have extracurriculars that somewhat rival large universities. Here in Baltimore Co. there are a lot of clubs and the student newspaper is a pretty decent production[1].

Still I get what you mean about connections, especially in some of the more social disciplines like business. But for me (Comp Sci) it wouldn't be worth the extra 60k+, and I actually already have some connections into the field through family. Nepotism works for me :D

[1]http://blog.ccbcmd.edu/connection/

Re: A bachelor’s degree could cost $10,000 total. Here’s how

#45

Post by gph »

zaphoyd wrote: post #42
gph wrote: post #26

How I plan on getting a bachelor's degree for ~15k. 1. Go to a community college in a county that you are a resident for your two-year associates. The money I'm getting from Pell grants is paying my 18-credit hours per semester tuition right now (Roughly $120 per credit hour tuition). Books on top of that are costing me about 300 a semester (buy cheap old editions as much as possible). I've gotten scholarship money t…

My wife is doing this, and while I agree the price is actually sane, the service can be extremely poor and horribly demoralizing, especially if you are bright and used to getting things done. Even at the flagship campuses of a community college system. The administrative functions of the school are extremely poor. Some of the instructors are OK others are downright unqualified to teach anything. When there are proble…

Oh I agree. The one I'm at is okay, and some of the instructors (usually the adjunct ones) are good. Still some of them seem like they barely could pass their own course, which can be quite frustrating. The administration is alright, the advisers aren't great, but I already know what I'm doing so I haven't particularly needed them. I can't imagine getting screwed over on registration though, where I am I can register online and I've not had a problem through 2 semesters. Perhaps I'm overestimating most community colleges based on the one I'm going to.

Still I'm just going into it with the mentality of it being work more than education. This is an obstacle I have to get through to get where I want to go. I've already decided on my career path, and I've learned more about it (Comp Sci) on my own than I will at community college. And it's something I'll continue to improve at the more I do it, so experience is more important than education. Especially considering how rapidly things change.

tl;dr It's definitely not a quality experience, just gotta put in the time and don't let it discourage you. And live in Baltimore County :P

Re: A bachelor’s degree could cost $10,000 total. Here’s how

#46

Post by gph »

tzs wrote: post #40
gph wrote: post #26

How I plan on getting a bachelor's degree for ~15k. 1. Go to a community college in a county that you are a resident for your two-year associates. The money I'm getting from Pell grants is paying my 18-credit hours per semester tuition right now (Roughly $120 per credit hour tuition). Books on top of that are costing me about 300 a semester (buy cheap old editions as much as possible). I've gotten scholarship money t…

Keep in mind, though, that sticker price at an elite private university is often a lot more than you will actually pay if you are not from a wealthy family. For example, according to Harvard: During the 2012-2013 academic year, students from families with incomes below $65,000, and with assets typical for that income level, will generally pay nothing toward the cost of attending Harvard College. Families with incomes…

Yea you're right. If you've put the effort in and get accepted to a top flight university you shouldn't turn it down for economic reasons.

Personally this wasn't an option for me for various reasons. But I shouldn't have made it sound like going to elite private universities was economically non-viable.

I should have made my counterpoint the private liberal arts universities that don't really add that much value compared to my route. Or even just starting out at Community college and then transferring instead of going straight to a 4-year state college.

Re: A bachelor’s degree could cost $10,000 total. Here’s how

#47

Post by L_Rahman »

gph wrote: post #26

How I plan on getting a bachelor's degree for ~15k. 1. Go to a community college in a county that you are a resident for your two-year associates. The money I'm getting from Pell grants is paying my 18-credit hours per semester tuition right now (Roughly $120 per credit hour tuition). Books on top of that are costing me about 300 a semester (buy cheap old editions as much as possible). I've gotten scholarship money t…

3. Be very poor and very smart and go to any of the world's best institutions for free.

This is something that a lot of low income students never take into account when applying to schools. The fact of the matter is that most of America's top tier institutions will cover cost of tuition, as well as housing, for most of its poorer students.

Re: A bachelor’s degree could cost $10,000 total. Here’s how

#48

Post by aspensmonster »

uptown wrote: post #41
beagle3 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The high prices are a symptom. The cause is cheap student loans: Since it is easy to get a loan, people will borrow as much as needed to get to the highest tier institution that will accept them. The private ones can thus increase their prices, and lure the staff with higher salaries. Now the public institutions need to level up salaries of professors and administrators, or they will leave for the private institution…

Quartz has some great charts showing the outstanding US Student Debt: http://qz.com/search/student+debt

http://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/outstanding-us-stu...

That's depressing.

Re: A bachelor’s degree could cost $10,000 total. Here’s how

#49

Post by L_Rahman »

ballard wrote: post #28
L_Rahman wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've found that the smallest classes at my school have also been the most rewarding. Sure you could sit in every day on my morning Thermo lecture and go unnoticed, but I've learned very little in that class that I couldn't already get out of an excellent textbook. On the other hand Pharmacokinetics meets once a week in the professor's office. He also happens to be one of the leaders of the field. For two hours a week…

For sure. Most people get ripped off on general electives at big brand schools. Caltech has/had pretty awesome staff/student ratio.

> meet potential cofounders

So true. The people I'm planning to do my startup are battle tested. We've pulled all nighters, dealt with high stress situations, and come out of it as friends. We know each others work habits, strengths and weaknesses.

All of that is going to be really important when we'll have just graduated with probably no funding.

Re: A bachelor’s degree could cost $10,000 total. Here’s how

#50

Post by aet »

oakaz wrote: post #43

10.000? Is this affordable for people who make no money? We're talking about people aged 18-22. Do they make money? How the hell is it fair to elect people by the wealth of their families?! Come on people! Don't you see the huge discrimination? This system is a blood sucker. Please demand a real change instead of dealing with it

$10,000/k for a Bachelor's equates to about $15 per a class period. At a class size of 30 that is $450 per class in revenue for the school. A professor spends 2 hours a week doing prep, 2 hours a week in office hours, 2 hours grading and 2 hours in class. Lets say overhead is 40%. That is equivalent to ~$30 dollars an hour to teach a class at 8 hours a week. Teach four classes and you are at ~40 hours a week. That puts you at about $50K a year after taxes. Most professors teach 1 or 2 classes a semester to leave time for grad students and research. --- are my assumptions way off here? 2 classes would mean $25k a year -- poverty line for family of 4.
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