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AMD Introduces "Mantle" API Initiative

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21–30 of 51 posts

Re: AMD Introduces "Mantle" API Initiative

#21
post #6

According to http://www.techspot.com/news/54134-amd-launches-mantle-api-t... : "We've been told at the GPU14 Tech Day event that the Mantle API is open, so theoretically Nvidia could purpose the technology in their GPUs." How feasible that is in reality is of course up for question. And I doubt that nVidia would be willing to implement an AMD-controlled API.

Probably about as feasible as Intel implementing AMD64 CPU extensions.

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Re: AMD Introduces "Mantle" API Initiative

#23
post #6

According to http://www.techspot.com/news/54134-amd-launches-mantle-api-t... : "We've been told at the GPU14 Tech Day event that the Mantle API is open, so theoretically Nvidia could purpose the technology in their GPUs." How feasible that is in reality is of course up for question. And I doubt that nVidia would be willing to implement an AMD-controlled API.

Probably about as feasible as Intel implementing AMD64 CPU extensions.

I seem to recall that Intel paid for that right with the SSE2 instruction set. Do you suggest something similar would have to happen? Please refrain from sarcasm as it adds little to a discussion and had the effect of insulting the previous poster.

Re: AMD Introduces "Mantle" API Initiative

#24
post #2

This is not for performance. OpenGL has very low overhead, and already allows you to "directly tap into the hardware" and "fully exploit the capabilities of modern GPUs". AMD wants people to write code that will not run on Nvidia and Intel hardware. Nvidia has been doing the same thing for years with CUDA.

This seems rather contrary to the heterogenous computation interest group that AMD was involved in. http://hsafoundation.com/

Re: AMD Introduces "Mantle" API Initiative

#25
post #2

This is not for performance. OpenGL has very low overhead, and already allows you to "directly tap into the hardware" and "fully exploit the capabilities of modern GPUs". AMD wants people to write code that will not run on Nvidia and Intel hardware. Nvidia has been doing the same thing for years with CUDA.

Follow some of the top-end OpenGL developers on Twitter sometime; you'll change your tune quickly. There's a significant amount of overhead in the existing OpenGL API, which currently can only be mitigated somewhat through vendor-specific extensions. But extensions alone aren't sufficient to address some of the serious issues that the OpenGL API has today. OpenGL forces you to maintain a tremendous amount of state in…

This. I'm hoping Mantle is to OGL what Mir was to Wayland - not a supplicant, but a kick in the rear to get their act in gear.

Re: AMD Introduces "Mantle" API Initiative

#26
post #14
post #2

This is not for performance. OpenGL has very low overhead, and already allows you to "directly tap into the hardware" and "fully exploit the capabilities of modern GPUs". AMD wants people to write code that will not run on Nvidia and Intel hardware. Nvidia has been doing the same thing for years with CUDA.

What, and people haven't been ragging on and even trying to replace OpenGL for years? Everyone used the GPU-specific API rather than OpenGL on PS3 to make it harder to port their code, not to get the maximum possible performance? The "leading game developers" that allegedly inspired Mantle aren't going to show? Standards are great, and I'd love OpenGL drivers to be as fast as possible, but OpenGL being what it is, th…

libgcm is pretty much just OpenGL with a few Sony specific extensions - plus you have to use their headers which use macros to build the command lists, probably pulled right out of NVidia's driver code.

It's quite fascinating how many of the PS3's APIs are wrappers around established standards/libraries, almost as if they were deliberately crafted to require more porting effort from developers.

Re: AMD Introduces "Mantle" API Initiative

#27
post #2

This is not for performance. OpenGL has very low overhead, and already allows you to "directly tap into the hardware" and "fully exploit the capabilities of modern GPUs". AMD wants people to write code that will not run on Nvidia and Intel hardware. Nvidia has been doing the same thing for years with CUDA.

OpenGL can introduce a lot of overhead, especially when moving data back and forth between CPU and GPU. As just one example, OpenGL gives you no control over texture swizzling, which can be a serious performance issue during texture upload.

That's sort of the fault of the hardware vendors though for not proposing any viable extensions that expose texture swizzling. Why would it get any better with a new API?

Re: AMD Introduces "Mantle" API Initiative

#28

My first thought when I saw the slides, especially the "cross-platform part", was "yay, no more DirectX!!!". This might mean that we're finally going to have AAA games on Linux too (DirectX was a big obstacle to that).

Mantle still doesn't solve input, audio, and a number of other services that DirectX provides in a unified way. Also, potentially AMD only, which has a smaller share than both Intel and nVidia.

Re: AMD Introduces "Mantle" API Initiative

#29
This is the huge benefit with the console wins to AMD that Carmack spoke about at Quakecon this year. Sounds like thanks to the new consoles, this will put AMD in the driver's seat. Everyone else will be stuck on DX or OGL. If NV/Intel implements Mantle it may well require a hardware change, since AMD defines this API going forward.

Re: AMD Introduces "Mantle" API Initiative

#30
post #6

According to http://www.techspot.com/news/54134-amd-launches-mantle-api-t... : "We've been told at the GPU14 Tech Day event that the Mantle API is open, so theoretically Nvidia could purpose the technology in their GPUs." How feasible that is in reality is of course up for question. And I doubt that nVidia would be willing to implement an AMD-controlled API.

They can, but it may require a change to their hardware (we don't know yet). And if they do follow AMD's lead here to catch up on performance gains, AMD is in control of the API so they know exactly what's going to change when.

Major coup for AMD. This is a CUDA that will affect all gamers.

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