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AMD Introduces "Mantle" API Initiative

hardwarezone.com.sg

11–20 of 51 posts

Re: AMD Introduces "Mantle" API Initiative

#11
post #6

According to http://www.techspot.com/news/54134-amd-launches-mantle-api-t... : "We've been told at the GPU14 Tech Day event that the Mantle API is open, so theoretically Nvidia could purpose the technology in their GPUs." How feasible that is in reality is of course up for question. And I doubt that nVidia would be willing to implement an AMD-controlled API.

Probably about as feasible as Intel implementing AMD64 CPU extensions.

Re: AMD Introduces "Mantle" API Initiative

#12
post #2

This is not for performance. OpenGL has very low overhead, and already allows you to "directly tap into the hardware" and "fully exploit the capabilities of modern GPUs". AMD wants people to write code that will not run on Nvidia and Intel hardware. Nvidia has been doing the same thing for years with CUDA.

They quoted 9x drawcall rate improvement. This is especially important on AMD APUs which are relatively weak on the CPU side.

Re: AMD Introduces "Mantle" API Initiative

#14
post #2

This is not for performance. OpenGL has very low overhead, and already allows you to "directly tap into the hardware" and "fully exploit the capabilities of modern GPUs". AMD wants people to write code that will not run on Nvidia and Intel hardware. Nvidia has been doing the same thing for years with CUDA.

What, and people haven't been ragging on and even trying to replace OpenGL for years? Everyone used the GPU-specific API rather than OpenGL on PS3 to make it harder to port their code, not to get the maximum possible performance? The "leading game developers" that allegedly inspired Mantle aren't going to show?

Standards are great, and I'd love OpenGL drivers to be as fast as possible, but OpenGL being what it is, this API seems pretty interesting to me.

Re: AMD Introduces "Mantle" API Initiative

#15
post #12
post #2

This is not for performance. OpenGL has very low overhead, and already allows you to "directly tap into the hardware" and "fully exploit the capabilities of modern GPUs". AMD wants people to write code that will not run on Nvidia and Intel hardware. Nvidia has been doing the same thing for years with CUDA.

They quoted 9x drawcall rate improvement. This is especially important on AMD APUs which are relatively weak on the CPU side.

I wonder if that is vs DirectX (easier) or vs OpenGL (harder).

Re: AMD Introduces "Mantle" API Initiative

#16
A few relevant notes from AMD's Twitter at @AMDRadeon:

- Collaboration between AMD and DICE/EA

- The Frostbite engine, used in Battlefield 4, "will use "Mantle" low-level API instead of DX11 on compatible Radeon GPUs."

- "Mantle enables 9x more draw calls per second than any other APIs by reducing CPU overhead - works with all GCN GPUs!"

Re: AMD Introduces "Mantle" API Initiative

#17
post #2

This is not for performance. OpenGL has very low overhead, and already allows you to "directly tap into the hardware" and "fully exploit the capabilities of modern GPUs". AMD wants people to write code that will not run on Nvidia and Intel hardware. Nvidia has been doing the same thing for years with CUDA.

There is a opportunity for performance improvements by making the API calls more practical for the hardware and unifying the design. Comparing an API at this level to OpenGL API exposes your ignorance.

Re: AMD Introduces "Mantle" API Initiative

#18
post #2

This is not for performance. OpenGL has very low overhead, and already allows you to "directly tap into the hardware" and "fully exploit the capabilities of modern GPUs". AMD wants people to write code that will not run on Nvidia and Intel hardware. Nvidia has been doing the same thing for years with CUDA.

OpenGL can introduce a lot of overhead, especially when moving data back and forth between CPU and GPU. As just one example, OpenGL gives you no control over texture swizzling, which can be a serious performance issue during texture upload.

Re: AMD Introduces "Mantle" API Initiative

#19
The ray traced demos have always been the most realistic. As far as I can tell we have millions of geniuses wasting their time and talent on hacks to get around a fundamentally inferior rendering model. Eventually large vendors will realize that and put out graphics hardware that does ray tracing. That and procedural generation are the things that I am waiting for AMD and Nvidia to do. At this point with the capabilities of electronics engineering we have now everything that delays that stuff is basically masturbation based on outdated concepts.

Re: AMD Introduces "Mantle" API Initiative

#20
post #2

This is not for performance. OpenGL has very low overhead, and already allows you to "directly tap into the hardware" and "fully exploit the capabilities of modern GPUs". AMD wants people to write code that will not run on Nvidia and Intel hardware. Nvidia has been doing the same thing for years with CUDA.

Follow some of the top-end OpenGL developers on Twitter sometime; you'll change your tune quickly.

There's a significant amount of overhead in the existing OpenGL API, which currently can only be mitigated somewhat through vendor-specific extensions. But extensions alone aren't sufficient to address some of the serious issues that the OpenGL API has today.

OpenGL forces you to maintain a tremendous amount of state information that significantly increases overhead.

John Carmack and many others have explicitly mentioned this in past discussions.

While I'm horrified at the idea of revisiting the days of 3DFX glide and installing my own client ICD into a game driectory, if Mantle drives the OpenGL ARB to start seriously addressing those issues and increases competition, then I'm all for it.

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